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Old 12-15-2005, 10:28 AM   #121
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I have an question. Is there a dead line for motors to be approved by ROAR? I don't believe there is but I want to make sure.

If not...why is there a deadline for batteries? ROAR's job isn't to make the hobby cheaper, it's job is to get new members and get us a place to display our skills and abilities.

Nascar isnt cheap but just owning a regular car is.
ROAR isnt cheap but just owning an RC car is.

Does any of this make sense or am I completely out to lunch in my thinking.
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Old 12-15-2005, 10:34 AM   #122
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Motor's can be submitted any time......they go through a process than can take 30-90 days.....then they get approved....

Later EddieO
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Old 12-15-2005, 10:35 AM   #123
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Ok now can someone tell me why we can't do this with batteries.
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Old 12-15-2005, 10:40 AM   #124
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Batteries are approved once a year, They are approved once a year to save the racers money, so we do not have to go out and buy batteries every other month. This is one of the better rules that have been put into place. I agree the time of the year is not exactly hte best, but that can be tweeked.
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Old 12-15-2005, 10:47 AM   #125
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Changing the date will do nothing for the regional programs...

Unless....

you have all the regions host regionals at the same time....

Then you could approve these new cells after regionals.....

Which could do wonders in rebuilding the heart & soul of Roar....
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Old 12-15-2005, 10:48 AM   #126
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Ok so we can let the racer spend 40 bucks for a race tuned motor every month but we can't let them spend 40 bucks every month for a battery

I agree if you want to save the racers money then limit the batteries...but get it right. Either limit the motors as well or remove the limit.

As I said. ROAR's job isnt to regulate the amount of money I spend on batteries. This past season I spent more on batteries then I have ever in my life. I had to have fresh 3300's for all the Roar Races and the Fresh 3700s for the other races then fresh 3800's for even more races. People now have to buy the "crap batteries that they will only use for roar races" and then their top flight race packs. Sure in Jan Feb and March everyone uses the same packs but come july when the new better and improved cell is out you have to either pony up and get that cell or be slower. Oh wait then in August I will have my regional so I have to buy more roar packs......

See the pattern.
it sucks. fix it. you guys are the Ex Comm (what ever that is)...you guys are the ones who know whats best for us. fix it. simple as that. dont make any more excuses. just do it
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Old 12-15-2005, 10:49 AM   #127
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I think his point was why do they pick "certain" items to regulate? We regualte batteries, but not motors. Regulate motors, but not nitro engines. Spec tires for one class, but not others.

Regulators!
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Old 12-15-2005, 10:50 AM   #128
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by limit I am referring to time of year they can be approved...sorry for confusion
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Old 12-15-2005, 11:21 AM   #129
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Bob, Derek, I see your points. Until recently we have been in a pretty good place concerning batteries. The once a year rule was put into place to stabilize and cost contain what was a very large part of the average racers budget. While ROAR is not there to tell you how much to spend, if it can help to contain some unnecessary cost to help out it member, shouldnt it ? It is a double edge sword.

Another thing the once a year approval process helps are the matchers, so they are not blindsided and caught with an overabundance of cells that they cannot sell, and may put them out of business.

If we all in North America are on the same page ( ROAR or not ), because if it isn't ROAR Rules it will be another orginazation that will have similar issues, then this kind of problem would not be that sizable.

My view, the stability is good, but the rule should be tweeked.

One thing we were discussing on the On-Road committe was the suggestion of moving to a twice a year approval process.

BTW, I am just a particpating member of the On-Road Committee


Regulators..... MOUNT UP !
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Old 12-15-2005, 11:22 AM   #130
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It's pretty much a "Must" to have multiple battery packs.... Motors are not as important.... Theoretically you could have 1 all weekend. And yeah theoretically you could have 1 battery all weekend, but we all know to be competitive you need more....Especially in on-road.


So a motor $40 to $110 (If we go by retail)

Batteries (5-10 of them) $500 to $1200.

You ask the dimise of electric racing!!! I certainly do not want to have to update my batts every month.
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Old 12-15-2005, 11:29 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barry
...it sucks. fix it. you guys are the Ex Comm (what ever that is)...you guys are the ones who know whats best for us. fix it. simple as that. dont make any more excuses. just do it
Simple as that? lmao I see your point, but there is MUCH more to the picture.

First you have to consider the intent of the rule and the context in which it was introduced. During the battery wars of yesteryear this rule was a huge help to racers. Batteries back then were more expensive than they are today, had a shorter life cycle, and were not quite up to snuff on Runtime. All of these things put a premium on batteries... specifically good matched packs. Thus the yearly battery approval allowed racers to not have to worry about buying batteries every time they turned around.

Looking at the situation today though... I agree things have changed significantly. One thing I find interesting is that people blame roar for Not allowing the newest battery on the market without approval, and even use the excuse that people must buy those batteries for other races like IIC, Snowbirds, etc. Why isn't anyone blaming them for allowing a NEW battery that eveyone feels they must now go out and purchase? Regardless, things have changed since the implementation of the rule. The most relevant in my opinion being Runtime. In previous years racers had to gear down to make runtime... so new higher mah packs gave a significant (albeit gearing) advantage to those racers using them. Today most people have all of the runtime they require. I'm aware certain Mod classes are dumping, but for the most part the runtime war is over.

So I really understand what the rule is for, but I feel that we could do without it. Those that claim that they MUST have the latest battery are foolish. The benefits gained from the recent batteries introduced is quickly negated when you tap that 1 board. Only the upper level racers are going to exploit the minor benefits of each recent battery release, and those are the guys that are going to be spending the money anyway on "fresh" packs... or they get packs cheap or free.

All of that said though... its not "simple as that". There will be MANY gripes about battery wars I'm sure. Perhaps there should be an advisory vote on the yearly approval process?
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Old 12-15-2005, 11:30 AM   #132
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Tim I think you mistake my saying "you fix it" as pertaining to you in particular. In all honesty I have been so fed up with the hipocrasy (sp?) and just total BS that Roar exhibited over the last few years I haven't kept up on who is who. I know its been brought up a million times but how can you let someone off the hook for legalizing brushless in mod class the week before the nats. and then claim to be a class orginazation. Here's another question for some of our overseas members. Are you happy with EFRA or your particular governing body or does this just happen everywhere and we have to learn to deal with it?

as far as your break down on motors and batteries...
A main competition at our local track.
Every guy has at least 2 motors a month if not more
Every guy buys an ave of a pack a month. (usually 2 packs every other)
If you are telling me you use the same motor for a whole season I am telling you that you aren't running at the level these guys are. I have personally watched guys open up tool boxes and there were more motors in there than tools. Don't equate what you spend as to what it costs to stay at the National level
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Old 12-15-2005, 11:35 AM   #133
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Kieth I agree. Times have changed. You can keep the rule if you like. The guys are still going to spend the money weather its ROAR approved or not. The thing is if its not ROAR approved now they will also be buying 2 or 4 extra packs towards the end of the year just to run the ROAR events. You and I both know that those packs will either be sold or relegated to practice packs. I don't know about you but I don't like the idea of spending 200 bucks for 4 packs that I will use 1 charge a piece on. Those packs will have more time spent on them being built then they will being raced.
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Old 12-15-2005, 11:35 AM   #134
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Many of you guys have lost sight of what this thread is suppose to be about. It is suppose to be about the old president stepping down, the vice president taking over, and whether this is a good thing or bad thing. Many of you have turn this into a bitchfest about batteries. This is more than just about getting certain types of batteries approved. Let me try to educate a few of you on some things you might want to pay attention to. First, the new president is a nitro, 1/8th scale, on-road racer/enthusiast. Also, he is the owner of Speedline and a dealer of Serpent and Mugen products. He has been in charge of the Texas Southwest Championship Series (SWCS) for a number of years (a 7 race, state-wide on-road series held every year). Most of his decisions, rule or otherwise, has been 1/8th scale biased (even though touring car tends to be the bigger class). So, all you electric and off-road guys really need to pay attention to any rule changes or decisions made that will affect you. As far as the SWCS, many changes, over the years, have been made for the convenience of a small few at the expense of the many. Guess who was making these decisions? With all of the bitching and complaining behind the scenes, instead of to the SWCS director, our racing venues have possibly dwindled from 4 to 2 and participation has been on the decline (some due to the unfavorable changes). So, you guys need to pay attention to the bigger picture and hope that the new president makes changes for the better and not fall into the same mindset that he has with his local scene. Bigger picture, fellas, pay very close attention to it!!!
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Old 12-15-2005, 11:39 AM   #135
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Bob, you run at a track is it out of the ordinary track, I am sure. and it appears to me that that the competetion level is dictating the costs. I would be willing to bet thoise are all stock motors too.. ( another issue at that) but if you guys were running 19t or mod, I would bet you would not be replacing motors quite as fast. How many of those people pay 100% for thier gear ?


BTW I know your not pointing the finger at me, as I have no control, but I am willing to try and help to fix things, no matter how frustrating it has been.
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