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Old 12-15-2005, 11:43 AM   #136
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JLock bring up a valid point and maybe we can get shane to start a seperate ( non-offical) Sanctioning body section....


This way we can discuss and bitch all we want.... Hopefully some good will come of it.
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Old 12-15-2005, 11:45 AM   #137
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And your point about blaming the IIC for using the NEW battery ( I know that was just an example) is moot. Club races here have guys pushing 1.225 in voltage. CLUB RACES. guys are going to run the big stick all the time as long as they can get it. IIC, Cleveland, Snowbirds...they are all just doing what the racers ask.
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Old 12-15-2005, 11:47 AM   #138
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Tim in the area around us (Bob Barry's area as well) 19T is getting more popular and those guys do more work and going thru motors than stock guys do. I know I run 19T on occasion and witht he new gearing guys run on them to go fast it mean new brushes and cut the motor every run. They take a beating but thats the price of going fast I guess. The faster you want to go the more money you spend up to a point. I'm not sure we will ever have it all figured out and the solutions are not going to come any easier thats for sure. Technology is changing almost weekly it seems.

Like I told my local hobbyshop owner I can't buy fast enough to keep up with all the new stuff coming out. I also fly heli's and planes and it is just as bad for them to as new stuff is seemingly available every week or two.

Oh well I get as much as I can and have fun with what I have.
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Old 12-15-2005, 11:51 AM   #139
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Your Right, Horsham holds what might be the fiercest club races on the planet. But you know as well as I do that the guys in FL are hella fast, the guys in CA are hella fast and Im sure I am leaving out at least 10 other sections of the country that are just as intense.

The fact that every Sat we have the opportunity to basically participate in a " " national is a tribute to the local talent and the track owners. I know that in offroad Long Island Raceway has a similar situation.

The stock vs Mod debate is one we are on the same page with. My just fix it point is I so sick of hearing the complaints for the past umteen years. Its frustrating.
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Old 12-15-2005, 12:09 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimPotter
JLock bring up a valid point and maybe we can get shane to start a seperate ( non-offical) Sanctioning body section....


This way we can discuss and bitch all we want.... Hopefully some good will come of it.
Thanks for catching my post. All of the splitting hairs about batteries will be moot if there isn't much of a governing body or sanctioned organization around to hold big regional/national races. Also, it will be moot if decisions by the organization keeps running off the very racers you are trying to attract or retain. Racers have been leaving their scenes in droves and it is not all because of the economy or whether they can afford the hobby anymore. If the decisions now and in the future only benefit a select few (referring to sponsored racers and people with very deep pockets), then what is the use of regulars racers taking time to participate in big events if we have no shot at all at finishing near the top or winning. This is turning into a "good ole boys", Augusta-style club that is excluding the very people they say they want to include (giving lip service).
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Old 12-15-2005, 12:12 PM   #141
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The difference between motors and batteries is the level of competiveness they provide....

Batteries, at least in onroad....you need the latest and greates to be competive......with motors, its hardly that. People are still winning major races with the Ti, a 5 year old design (3 titles in 2005...Reedy, Snowbirds, Carpet Nats in the USA).....

Motors need to be approved so they meet the requirements, but they don't need a date level....

Like Orange said (and we rarely agree, so consider this a rare occurence).....if a new must have motor comes out every month.....I am out $30-$60.....if a must have new battery comes out, I am out $250-$1000+ every month.....

We are comparing an apple to an orange (no pun intended) here.....

Later EddieO
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Old 12-15-2005, 12:14 PM   #142
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Well said.... Eddie O for new ROAR pres...LOL
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Old 12-15-2005, 12:15 PM   #143
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Many of these approval restrictions were done long ago as cost cutting measures. It is almost 2006 and we passed up cost control a long time ago. I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is not a hobby. It is a SPORT and should to be treated that way. When we are looking at multiple packs of $70-100 batteries that change all the time and $700-800 .21 nitro engines to be competitive, cost control has waved bye-bye. And those are only two elements to our sporting costs. The approval guidelines should be rewritten so we can quickly adjust to new product releases and be inline with the rest of the world sanctioning bodies.

I propose we collectively stop using the word "hobby" and start referring to this as a "sport". A hobby is referring to backyard bashers, yo-yos, kites, etc. and ROAR has zero to do with these things or their promotion. ROAR is supposed to be all about racing and it should be structured as such. Look at NASCAR and cost control, there is some on very limited levels like number of tires you can purchase at a given track, etc. and we do similar things at big races too. Overall you won't find much else restricting costs in the big leagues.

Now look at all of the cost cutting things they have done to F1 over the past year. Has it helped the promotion? No. Has it helped level competition? Maybe [subjective]. Has it helped save money? Not really. The point here is that the lowest entry levels of racing may have room for some cost control, but the mid to high end classes should be open wrt expense. The good news is that the sanctioning body realizes this and is trying new stuff next year. This is what ROAR lacks, the mutability. We have stuck with many rules for so long and some are very out of date.
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Old 12-15-2005, 12:16 PM   #144
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Ummmm, you could look in my pit box and see at least 40 motors.... I never said I didn't buy alot of them, only used as a comparison..... But, last weekend event I attended, used 1 motor for practice and 1 motor for quals and mains..... I used at least 20 battery packs (Older ones)for practice and brand new fresh packs for quals and mains (3 classes 4 quals 7 mains = 19 packs) Grand total..... 39 battery packs, 6 motors.... Quite a comparison!! I get my cells and motors discounted through sponsorship, I feel bad for the "regular guy"

As far as off-road racers paying attention??? I'm the chaiman of the electric off-road committee, trust me I watch.

Old president had a nickname for me.... he called me "Angryman" and by the way you cannot compare apples to apples.... Old pres and new one were both 1/8 on-road racers..... No difference.

Since we are on the Off-Road rant.... my first love in this "sport" is off-road, obviously.... I think that the "New Pres will make a fine one.... I like the way you compare what he does "In your area" the same for what he does for the entire nation..... Just because you haven't gotten your way with him doesn't mean that he will be a bad president for the whole country.... with that said, what a VP does for the area he lives in may not look good for the rest of the country, did you think since he was the VP that you automatically got special considerations because he lived in your territory? The way you say things, that is how it appears.
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Old 12-15-2005, 12:19 PM   #145
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Default Well said!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fraz
Many of these approval restrictions were done long ago as cost cutting measures. It is almost 2006 and we passed up cost control a long time ago. I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is not a hobby. It is a SPORT and should to be treated that way. When we are looking at multiple packs of $70-100 batteries that change all the time and $700-800 .21 nitro engines to be competitive, cost control has waved bye-bye. And those are only two elements to our sporting costs. The approval guidelines should be rewritten so we can quickly adjust to new product releases and be inline with the rest of the world sanctioning bodies.

I propose we collectively stop using the word "hobby" and start referring to this as a "sport". A hobby is referring to backyard bashers, yo-yos, kites, etc. and ROAR has zero to do with these things or their promotion. ROAR is supposed to be all about racing and it should be structured as such. Look at NASCAR and cost control, there is some on very limited levels like number of tires you can purchase at a given track, etc. and we do similar things at big races too. Overall you won't find much else restricting costs in the big leagues.

Now look at all of the cost cutting things they have done to F1 over the past year. Has it helped the promotion? No. Has it helped level competition? Maybe [subjective]. Has it helped save money? Not really. The point here is that the lowest entry levels of racing may have room for some cost control, but the mid to high end classes should be open wrt expense. The good news is that the sanctioning body realizes this and is trying new stuff next year. This is what ROAR lacks, the mutability. We have stuck with many rules for so long and some are very out of date.
Well said Fraz!
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Old 12-15-2005, 12:25 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Like Orange said (and we rarely agree, so consider this a rare occurence).....if a new must have motor comes out every month.....I am out $30-$60.....if a must have new battery comes out, I am out $250-$1000+ every month.....

We are comparing an apple to an orange (no pun intended) here.....

Later EddieO
Lol, I had to read that twice.....Almost spit coffee all over the moniter.... Then read it again in dis-belief....Lol
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Old 12-15-2005, 12:26 PM   #147
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See I used 4 motors 5 packs. There's one difference right there. Hey I never said I was right. I just voiced my opinion. I think that more people need to stand up and voice their opinion...just so that there are other point of views. The amount of racers that ROAR AND the internet actually encompasses is very small. dont forget that.
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Old 12-15-2005, 12:32 PM   #148
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4 motors in one weekend? Whats express doing to those things???

I don't think the quanity is the issue really with the motors...any of the top modifieds can put you in the winners circle at a race......I dare you to show up with 3300 and try to win against everyone else running 3700/3800 packs.....maybe in offroad....

This is the intent of the battery rule....

Motors....sorry, just don't see it.....especially when you see people win national titles with a 5 year old motor.....the monster stock has been king of the hill for like 3 years....but a p2k2 can still win its fair share of stuff...


I've actually put my name in the hat for the vacant ROAR VP spot...we'll see if I get it....

Later EddieO
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Old 12-15-2005, 12:34 PM   #149
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Eddie just easier for me not to have to work on motors at the track. Many times I have run only one. I actually think my motors get better with age
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Old 12-15-2005, 12:42 PM   #150
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If you guys think the battery rule is in place to keep cost down then why not just have the rule for Stock class (since that is supposed to be the low budget/entry level class) and Open for 19 turn and Mod? Maybe that would also cure the problem of fully sponsored/factory drivers running stock?

Flame away but just an thought that popped up....I dont have many of those!! LOL

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