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Old 12-10-2005, 10:38 AM   #61
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Thats where the handout motors come in.. A silvercan 540 is cheap, and could be included in the fee for the race. I'm sure that it would be no problem for a club to get great deals on the motors, when buying a whole lot.. But I'm aware of the problems you speak of.. been racing in the M-chassie class myself..
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Old 12-10-2005, 10:51 AM   #62
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I hate to disagree with you, but a poorly tuned 12th scale is nearly impossible to drive...
There is only so much you can do to a 12th to make it "poorly tuned". A tweak from hitting the wall is hardly impossible to drive. They are quite simple cars and perhaps thats the point I was leaning towards. There are so many adjustments on a TC that its easy to tune yourself out of a race. All of the adjustments leave guys that only enjoy the racing portion a bit overwhelmed, unimpressed, or both.

Either way... any poorly tuned car is difficult to drive FAST.
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Old 12-10-2005, 11:40 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKA
There is only so much you can do to a 12th to make it "poorly tuned". A tweak from hitting the wall is hardly impossible to drive. They are quite simple cars and perhaps thats the point I was leaning towards. There are so many adjustments on a TC that its easy to tune yourself out of a race. All of the adjustments leave guys that only enjoy the racing portion a bit overwhelmed, unimpressed, or both.

Either way... any poorly tuned car is difficult to drive FAST.
once you reach the upper levels then no matter what platform you run you have to have your car dialed....

for a beginner, I still think it's easier to get your wheels under you with a TC...the 4wd helps make up for a lot of the effects of poor tuning...
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Old 12-10-2005, 12:43 PM   #64
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Old 12-10-2005, 03:37 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKA
A poorly tuned TC will be difficult to drive, while a poorly tuned 12th scale will be easier.
I don't think I could agree less with you, have you ever driven a pan car? My father's TC3 was setup quite badly, yet I could still turn laps pretty close to my TC3 that had a better setup. On the other hand I know for a fact that a poorly setup 1/12th scale car will turn laps far slower than one that is setup well, I've seen it over the past couple months while I was trying to get my setup down on my Corally.
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Old 12-10-2005, 04:03 PM   #66
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Old 12-11-2005, 12:22 AM   #67
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I'm asking you guys why put up with the TC BS and why isn't anyone running 12th scale? I want you guys to see things my way. I think running TC is stupid, running pan cars is smarter.
I've been wondering why more people are not running 12th scale myself. What a great class; inexpensive, and fun and they require little maintenance. Honestly I think most people who can afford the latest and greatest in the touring car market can also afford to add a 12th scale to the stable.

But to argue your point about needing the latest and greatest, that's BS. While you can't beat the super fast guys without good gear, like batteries, you can still have a lot of fun and be competetive with an older car and radio. TC3's are cheap and are still good cars, once you invest into the electronics a rolling pro level car really is not that expensive for someone with a job. You can still have a lot of fun even if your not first place every night. I'm using packs that are more than a year old now.

Most touring cars are high maintenance (not all), but it's reasonably easy maintenance and the general learing curve for tuning a TC is somewhat lower IMO. 12th scale is simple, once you figure it out, but they see more "voodoo" to a new driver. Pretty much any one who starts out bashing understands a 4WD vehicle, they are easier to drive when tweaked than a 12 scale, and the slower classes (novice) are slow enough that people can drive the cars more successfully. When I got into on road I found TC's to be way less intimidating than the pan cars. Also there are a lot of us out here that don't really have to do a whole lot to their cars. Other than keeping my camber in check if I hit something, I haven't gone through my Pro4 in months and it is still working really well. But I more than know what you mean, my TC3 on the other hand required a rebuild every race day.

I don't get why all pan car classes aren't more popular. I can understand why oval isn't, but road course pans are a blast. Running pan cars is not "smarter" it's more "sophisticated."
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Old 12-11-2005, 01:05 AM   #68
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I run both,pan cars(pro 10)and TC's,The point a lot of people are missing is the reason why pan cars died is 2 fold and neither one has to do with speed,First when Tamiya came out with the ta01 you could drive them on the street and drive them on an un treated parking lot and they were fast(mab.540 fast )compared to a pan car that was not very well suited to the same conditions.Next you have volume(amount sold)TC's sell a lot better than a pan car..remember their are a lot more bashers than racers.. I do know that on my carpet track my pro 10 car is 2 laps faster than the fastest TC's,It's sad that a pan car out handles a TC,And for you guys that disagree with this Have not driven a hooked pro 10 pan car.. I know the tracks that Dan races at and I can tell you for a fact you are NOT going to show up with a TC3 with marginal(1.16)batteries and do anything other than make the B main or the bottom of the A's driving your azz off.You will see just what i mean when the Carpet Nat's are over.The Nats this year are in Kats back yard.
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Old 12-11-2005, 02:05 AM   #69
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I love racing 1/12 scale. But now I race more of touring because that's where everyone is. It's not a big deal. I just practice more and get to know the car better and better to be better, even if I have old stuff. I agree that it's an expensive hobby but I am sure that when people came into this hobby, they knew what they were getting into.
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Old 12-11-2005, 09:16 AM   #70
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Why touring????.....

Can run on unprepped surface.....as xkat mentioned. IMO, this is #1. Bashers can have fun running the same cars as the heros in the rags, out in the middle of the street. Try that with a pan car.

Cool factor. Everybody loves the latest and greatest. New stuff all the time that's obvious to spot. IE, the difference between Xray T1 vs FK04 vs FK05 vs T2 as opposed to 12L vs 12L2, 3, 4, T-force, etc. Pan cars are boring in comparison.

and pan cars were all the rage for years, then then the sopisticated touring cars appeared......Poof, pan cars are gone......

However, I feel that if the local track is carpet, it just stupid to run a touring car (doesn't everybody make the suspension so stiff it's essentially ineffective to work on carpet with foams?). And likewise, if the local track is other than carpet, pan cars are stupid (generally horrid tire wear, but not always).

Wish the local track was carpet.........
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Old 12-11-2005, 09:20 AM   #71
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Running a $500+ Touring car out on the street Not gonna happen in my house!
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Old 12-11-2005, 09:22 AM   #72
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Touring cars are much more realistic than pan cars.
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Old 12-11-2005, 09:31 AM   #73
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Dan if your going to run at Gilroy and Stockton I know their are still a few guys up their that still run or have pro 10 cars.If you like 1/12 you would really like the 1/10 scale..6 cell 19 turn is just plain fast,I thought it felt like running a TC with a 8 wind but better it was hooked up.It's a very cheap class to run,the price for a new car is in the $160 range,the only part i ever break is the T bar(and not very often)The tires are cheap(RC for less )If you still want to race and dont want to spend a ton this is the class for you.
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Old 12-11-2005, 09:32 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subman
Running a $500+ Touring car out on the street Not gonna happen in my house!
Never..I dont really like parking lots..
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Old 12-11-2005, 09:37 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desolas
I've been wondering why more people are not running 12th scale myself. What a great class; inexpensive, and fun and they require little maintenance. Honestly I think most people who can afford the latest and greatest in the touring car market can also afford to add a 12th scale to the stable.

But to argue your point about needing the latest and greatest, that's BS. While you can't beat the super fast guys without good gear, like batteries, you can still have a lot of fun and be competetive with an older car and radio. TC3's are cheap and are still good cars, once you invest into the electronics a rolling pro level car really is not that expensive for someone with a job. You can still have a lot of fun even if your not first place every night. I'm using packs that are more than a year old now.

Most touring cars are high maintenance (not all), but it's reasonably easy maintenance and the general learing curve for tuning a TC is somewhat lower IMO. 12th scale is simple, once you figure it out, but they see more "voodoo" to a new driver. Pretty much any one who starts out bashing understands a 4WD vehicle, they are easier to drive when tweaked than a 12 scale, and the slower classes (novice) are slow enough that people can drive the cars more successfully. When I got into on road I found TC's to be way less intimidating than the pan cars. Also there are a lot of us out here that don't really have to do a whole lot to their cars. Other than keeping my camber in check if I hit something, I haven't gone through my Pro4 in months and it is still working really well. But I more than know what you mean, my TC3 on the other hand required a rebuild every race day.

I don't get why all pan car classes aren't more popular. I can understand why oval isn't, but road course pans are a blast. Running pan cars is not "smarter" it's more "sophisticated."
the TC3's ive owned never got rebuilt and they were more then enough to be competitive...the diffs got rebuilt about once ever 6 months(from stock rubber to mod foam)
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