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Old 12-07-2005, 07:07 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bender
Actually Soviet, you're incorrect there. Whenever you have two unequally-weighted sides (the battery side and the motor side) you can still balance the chassis correctly by how far away the mass is from the central axis of the car.

In essence, by moving the "heavy" side (battery) closer to the centre line of the car, or by moving the "light" side (motor) further away from the centre line you can still achieve an equal left-right weight balance.

This is possible only with belt drive as you are able to move the front belt around to get the cells very very close to the centre, plus move the motor far away from the centre - this is the what is being achieved by the current belt drive layouts.

With a TC3 style layout, the shaft always prevents the cells from getting any closer to the centre, and the relatively small spur gear prevents the motor from getting further away from the centre.

Do you remember the hyperdrive belt system? If someone like AE adapted that to their shaft drive system then the belt length would push the motor further away, thus creating a more equally balanced chassis
Great points! However don't forget...there is a MAJOR difference between static (standing still) and dynamic (moving) balance.

I do agree that a belt interface between motor and spur would be interesting.
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Old 12-07-2005, 08:16 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soviet
When you enter 20 cars into a big race, compared to another company only entering 5. Your bound to win more.
I disagree,
I got much faster with the RDX.
I use to drive the TC3...
Then the YOK SD
and the BD..
All are capable cars.
I was more consistant and faster in the corners with the RDX. It steers faster and smoother than any other car I have driven.
And they haven't had 20 RDX's Team Drivers in one class for a very long time..
Its just people are fast with it..
Same goes for the FK05 it is fast and people like it. That is why there are so many entries with the cars...Not because the Team puts 20 guys in a race.

Oh some good news.
Corally isn't replacing the RDX anytime soon.
Got this from someone that would know..
Plus why would they need too...They just upgrade the parts that have problems.
One instance of this..
Diff Bolt...the stock one use to break alot so...Team Corally USA requested a high strength bolt..Guess what they have them...
Oh then they realized that the old screw that broke off in the small diff half couldn't be removed they now are giving away diff nuts so you can keep the diff half..
Lower blocks better thrust bearings...
The list just keeps going...
Lets just say They Believe in there Two Years of Research and Developement..stay with a car that works and change the minor thigns that can make the car better...There aren't that many cars out that have to add weight to the battery side of the car to get it balanced...That is how far batteries can be moved to the center on a belt car...
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Old 12-07-2005, 09:13 AM   #48
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[QUOTE=Mr. Shookie]I disagree,
I got much faster with the RDX.
I use to drive the TC3...
Then the YOK SD
and the BD..
All are capable cars.
I was more consistant and faster in the corners with the RDX. It steers faster and smoother than any other car I have driven.
And they haven't had 20 RDX's Team Drivers in one class for a very long time..
Its just people are fast with it..
Same goes for the FK05 it is fast and people like it. That is why there are so many entries with the cars...Not because the Team puts 20 guys in a race.
QUOTE]

I think many are missing the point I originally made earlier in the post. I think Soviet agrees with me. The car (FT TC4) is not the reason why it's not winning any races. It's the team.
And yes, with 20 car teams, it is easier to end up in the winning the race. Think of it this way, there are 2 teams at a race. One team has 20 members and another has 5. Which team do you think will come up with the majic set-up first? Which team will be able to experiment and try the most things out in the shortest amount of time...well it's kind of obvious that the larger team has the advantage.

I am not saying that the size if the team is the only determining factor of what winns races but it's a major advantage. And plus just considering the numbers game, you have better odds of winning with 20 drivers versus 5.

I said earlier that the FT TC4 is not to fault for not winning races. This is a very capable car of not one of the most capable.
How can I say this, well I run one and have experience in running it. But more importantly, it had a pretty good showing at it's first ever race...Reedy. Then just last month at Cleveland, Barry posted the single fastest touring car lap at the event with the FT TC4. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can argue that he got lucky with one fast lap. But you have to rememeber 2 things:
1) that this is Barry Baker wheeling this car
2) Barry had more than a few laps that tied others for the second fastest lap time

I have a feeling that the more this car is run, the more it's going to win.
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Old 12-07-2005, 09:23 AM   #49
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[QUOTE=koabich]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Shookie
I disagree,
I got much faster with the RDX.
I use to drive the TC3...
Then the YOK SD
and the BD..
All are capable cars.
I was more consistant and faster in the corners with the RDX. It steers faster and smoother than any other car I have driven.
And they haven't had 20 RDX's Team Drivers in one class for a very long time..
Its just people are fast with it..
Same goes for the FK05 it is fast and people like it. That is why there are so many entries with the cars...Not because the Team puts 20 guys in a race.
QUOTE]

I think many are missing the point I originally made earlier in the post. I think Soviet agrees with me. The car (FT TC4) is not the reason why it's not winning any races. It's the team.
And yes, with 20 car teams, it is easier to end up in the winning the race. Think of it this way, there are 2 teams at a race. One team has 20 members and another has 5. Which team do you think will come up with the majic set-up first? Which team will be able to experiment and try the most things out in the shortest amount of time...well it's kind of obvious that the larger team has the advantage.

I am not saying that the size if the team is the only determining factor of what winns races but it's a major advantage. And plus just considering the numbers game, you have better odds of winning with 20 drivers versus 5.

I said earlier that the FT TC4 is not to fault for not winning races. This is a very capable car of not one of the most capable.
How can I say this, well I run one and have experience in running it. But more importantly, it had a pretty good showing at it's first ever race...Reedy. Then just last month at Cleveland, Barry posted the single fastest touring car lap at the event with the FT TC4. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can argue that he got lucky with one fast lap. But you have to rememeber 2 things:
1) that this is Barry Baker wheeling this car
2) Barry had more than a few laps that tied others for the second fastest lap time

I have a feeling that the more this car is run, the more it's going to win.
Agreed. My point is that the reason why there is so many people running RDX(Meaning so many guys helping with setup(Plus the RDX guy streat everyone like family) is because it is a very fast car. That was it...
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Old 12-07-2005, 09:30 AM   #50
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[QUOTE=PitCrew]I remember having to mill my chassis on the TC3 to get the batts close to centerline. Then getting 4 scales to balance the car properly and still having to add 1.5oz of weight next to the motor. Then it handled OK. But it was heavy, and bearings and things wear out too fast.

Still in mod, the car wanted to tweak or "torqu-steer" or whatever you want to call it.

The belt drive cars don't have this problem because of the way the motor is mounted. That is probably why they are "easier" to drive, cause they don't do WEIRD things.
QUOTE]

Ok, this one is funny. I know milling was a pain in the butt but I don't understand the problem or why it's even being mentioned. To me that was part of the fun in making an incredible car even better. What about the 2 years where the car was raced and the chassis were not milled and this car was still beating everything on the track. At least Associated didn't feel the need to launch an entirely new car for this simple upgrade and dare I say it but a TC3 with a milled chassis is much more of an approvement over a regular TC3 that there will be with the FK '05 and the T2.

Second, the TC3 was one of the lighest touring cars out. How can you say it was heavier is way beyond me. This thing was a feather compared to all the other chassis that were full of aluminum...do me a favor and name me a lighter 1/10 touring car of the same time frame...you would be a liar if you did!

Third, the only reason drivers would have a problem with bearings on this car would be becuase they were using the good old $10.00 for a complete set of bearings or more likely because drivers could keep it off the walls!

Fourth, Torque steer was not as big of a problem as everyone thinks. One person says it is, so others think the same. While the car did exibit some when using extrememly wild winds, the majority of time the car exibited torque steer was because it was poorly setup and/or because most of the bone heads that milled that chassis did it wrong and tweaked their chassis then complained that it was the cars fault.
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Old 12-07-2005, 09:35 AM   #51
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All of the "engineering" aside.....from my experience driving the TC3 since it came out and then the TC4.......I have switched to a different brand of car.


All I can say at this point is I have now developed an incredible amount of RESPECT for Barry Baker's driving ability.
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Old 12-07-2005, 09:45 AM   #52
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It's all in the chassis set-up. I had a TC3 so dialed that guys couldn't believe it was a TC3. They just shook there heads. The TC3 can still beat anything on the track. I had a FK04 and it was awesome as well. But shaft vs belt is left upto ones own opinion.
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Old 12-07-2005, 09:48 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soviet
Goes to show how much you know. Especially since Corally based the suspension geometry of the RDX off the TC3.
I'd like to know where the hell did you get that from...
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Old 12-07-2005, 09:48 AM   #54
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It is harder to win nowadys since we have about 10 brands of cars that are capable of winnng at anytime. Associated can't dominate forever but they did have the TC3 that was dominate for many years and unlike a few companies have to make a new car every 6 months to a year. I respect that they stick with got them to where they are and did stuff the way they wanted them. Another nice thing is every hobbyshop in the country can order parts easily and never have to wait for the boat to come in and then sit in customs for who knows how long.

It is a no win situation when talking about what car is the best. It all comes down to each person and what they like and then going out and buying what suits them. I know for me I tried about every touring car out and to tell you the truth it really don't matter which car I drive as results are so close that it don't matter what brand I run. I just now simply buy the cars that I can get the easiest parts supply for and normally it is Associated and Losi in this country.
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Old 12-07-2005, 09:48 AM   #55
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Sorry it double posted.
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Old 12-07-2005, 09:52 AM   #56
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I can vouch for him, he smoked everyone with a 415, BMITC4, RDX, FTTC4, JRXS .... the list goes on.
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Old 12-07-2005, 10:04 AM   #57
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I remember when I had a TC3 I wanted to get the TC4 you know to stick with the company that wone me many races. The only thing I hated about the TC3 was the weight it was a tank and the fact of the tub chassis. When the original TC4 came out I didn't even want it, so I bought a HPI PRO 4 for $259 US, can you say stupid fast out of the box with more traction, less weight, and more durability than a TC3. The only reason HPI and Hot Bodies released 2 cars is because they wanted 2 cars that could both win with 2 seperate drive systems one for people who love shaft and people who love belt. Both use same suspension and are equally capable of winning.

My .02 cents
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Old 12-07-2005, 10:58 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRF415boy
I'd like to know where the hell did you get that from...
as long as cliff lett on working for team ASS their wil NEVER be a belt car..the RDX thing not even close, the diffs are in different locations due to the belts, and the bulkheads are totally not inline like the none bulkheads on the TC4 ...if anything the RDX has been copied my some tamiya and hudy..
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Old 12-07-2005, 11:09 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby J
as long as cliff lett on working for team ASS their wil NEVER be a belt car..the RDX thing not even close, the diffs are in different locations due to the belts, and the bulkheads are totally not inline like the none bulkheads on the TC4 ...if anything the RDX has been copied my some tamiya and hudy..

I heard it directly from a Corally team driver. He said the geometry (angles) was based off of a TC3. I simply took his word for it.
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Old 12-07-2005, 11:19 AM   #60
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I'm not sure but wasn't the 415 out before the RDX? If so they didn't copy Corally and they would of never copied the Assassin because it wasn't that great of a car. Cool but not near as good as the RDX.
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