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Old 12-07-2005, 05:53 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Scott S
It wasn't an option then because 2400's couldn't last another minute. 3000's were on the verge of lasting a good extra minute, but still not quite. 3300's and 3800's will last another minute so why not take advantage of that extra runtime? Not everyone has 3800's, but we all have 3300's, so we should all be able to last 6 minutes now.
Which class are you speaking of, mod or stock? Because Stock could last that 6 minutes even back with 2400's.
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Old 12-07-2005, 05:59 PM   #122
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Wow, I posted that on the first page. If your not going to read all the posts and all of the arguments, then I consider your opinions null and void.
I posted that and nobody seemed to consider it a reasonable argument, so I went on to another aspect of longer races. Now we're just going in circles.
Funny cause your first post was on page TWO and it did not say anything about having more fun, it covered you needed to change every track or none at all because of visitors would be at a disadvantage coming to a track that ran for 6 minutes when thier home track only ran for 5. Try again to discredit my points, just this time use some vaid reasoning with them and without false accusations.
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Old 12-07-2005, 06:01 PM   #123
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I was just going to post the same thing, but you beat me to it!
The only concrete argument AGAINST changing races to 6 minutes is that it will make long race days even longer, but you've just proven it won't be that big of a difference! Even if changing to 6min races DID take longer to run a race day, I know I'd choose staying longer in the end to have 6min races over finishing a little earlier with 5min races. I'm not sure why people are against this, IT WAS CHANGED FROM 4min TO 5min ONCE BEFORE. WHY CAN'T IT BE DONE AGAIN?? Longer races = more track time. Track time = fun. You do the math.

wow, sorry. my second post - post #64.
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Old 12-07-2005, 06:04 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by T. Thomas
Which class are you speaking of, mod or stock? Because Stock could last that 6 minutes even back with 2400's.
Stock Sedan.
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Old 12-07-2005, 06:05 PM   #125
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TO me, yall who do run stock, do have a better chance at getting the race time lengthened than does the mod guys.
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Old 12-07-2005, 06:06 PM   #126
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TO me, yall who do run stock, do have a better chance at getting the race time lengthened than does the mod guys.
Finally, we can agree on something.
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Old 12-07-2005, 06:29 PM   #127
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I find this a good open forum for the pros and cons of adding 1 minute to the lenght of TC races.

In my case, I'm for an additional minute. And why you might ask:

1. Extra track time, no one can argue this fact.
2. The technology can easily handle it, even when we were in the 2400 days.
3. Better races, a small bobble will make less of a difference during a run.
4. Encourage new racers. Lots of noob's don't get into it becuase they don't want to dive into the inital startup for 5 minute runs.

Now...Many of you will say..cost, eats equipment, longer race day...etc..
My arguments against that:

1. Cost: Most people say "motors heat up and get destroyed", sure they get hot and need a rebuild, that's all part of the fun of it. 3$ for brushes, come on, you waste that in ATM fees every day!.

Also...why aren't we running 5-pole motors? (I think we were in an ice age when our current 3-pole motors were invented). A 5-pole or 7 pole motor would last forever without a drop in performance.

Batteries, I'm still running my 3300's and can hold my own no problem at club races...nuff said.

2. Eats equipment: Our modern cars can take this. If you want to race AND win, you need to be on top of your stuff. I rebuild my cars after every race day to assure nothing goes wrong during the next race day. If you don't keep on top of your stuff AND keep losing all the time...I can't help y'a.

3. Extra time during race days: A couple extra minutes!! Just add the "we start if you like it or not" policy at your track and trust me, you will be done your race sooner!!

I give a big [X] in the spot for adding 1 min to TC races.

Have fun racing.
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Old 12-07-2005, 06:46 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddesros2
I find this a good open forum for the pros and cons of adding 1 minute to the lenght of TC races.

In my case, I'm for an additional minute. And why you might ask:

1. Extra track time, no one can argue this fact.
2. The technology can easily handle it, even when we were in the 2400 days.
3. Better races, a small bobble will make less of a difference during a run.
4. Encourage new racers. Lots of noob's don't get into it becuase they don't want to dive into the inital startup for 5 minute runs.

Now...Many of you will say..cost, eats equipment, longer race day...etc..
My arguments against that:

1. Cost: Most people say "motors heat up and get destroyed", sure they get hot and need a rebuild, that's all part of the fun of it. 3$ for brushes, come on, you waste that in ATM fees every day!.

Also...why aren't we running 5-pole motors? (I think we were in an ice age when our current 3-pole motors were invented). A 5-pole or 7 pole motor would last forever without a drop in performance.

Batteries, I'm still running my 3300's and can hold my own no problem at club races...nuff said.

2. Eats equipment: Our modern cars can take this. If you want to race AND win, you need to be on top of your stuff. I rebuild my cars after every race day to assure nothing goes wrong during the next race day. If you don't keep on top of your stuff AND keep losing all the time...I can't help y'a.

3. Extra time during race days: A couple extra minutes!! Just add the "we start if you like it or not" policy at your track and trust me, you will be done your race sooner!!

I give a big [X] in the spot for adding 1 min to TC races.

Have fun racing.
WELL put Dan...I second that [X ] for adding 1 min to TC races!!
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Old 12-07-2005, 07:05 PM   #129
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Trying to say that the 5 minute race is keeping people out of the hobby isn't anything real. If they don't want to get into it because the races are so short, adding 1 minute isn't going to suddenly make our hobby look like more fun. I know that when I started, the races sounded short, but that wasn't even a factor in my decision to get into the hobby.

When I started racing, LONG before touring cars, we ran 4 minutes in all 10th scale classes and 8 minutes in 12th scale with 1200mah batteries. Somehow, we managed to make time, but it was a battery war every weekend. The rule was gear it 'till you dump and them back off a tooth. That was as fast as you could go.

As battery capacities increased, motors were redesigned and have become much faster and more powerful. But, that came at the price of increased amp draw.

Now, we have 3300 to 3800 mah batteries. But, we have stock motors that are pulling the same amp draw that 14-17 turn modified motors did back in the day of the 1200's. So, we may have more than twice the run time, but we are also pulling twice the amps. Now we gear to where the motor runs best and we don't have to worry about how big our gas tank is.

So, CAN we make a 6 or 7 minute run in TC Stock with our current technology? Sure, but it puts you close to the end of your pack on 3300's. That brings back the battery war. 3800's will reduce this problem, but not eliminate it.

The real problem I see with TC is that many people are cooking their motors. Running only 5 minutes, the motors are commonly coming off at or above 200 degrees. Some of the better drivers can keep the temps down, but the average racer will be severely challenged by that extra minute. Temps this high may not lead to immediate disastrous failures, but the heat will cause brushes to fail quicker and magnets will lose their strength. This will lead to higher costs.

If the heat problem can be solved, then longer races might be an option...


P.S.: The argument about having the race directors start running a 'tighter program' has been going on the entire 15 years I have been racing. I'm sure it was going on before I got into the hobby. They always try to keep things moving, but in trying to keep the racers happy, it becomes a little more laid back.
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Old 12-08-2005, 11:05 AM   #130
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I would have to say the guys that want longer TC races are in the minority,I run the races at a local track and in our polls I think I'm the only one who voted FOR longer race's.It comes down to numbers,If 2 guys want 6 minute races and 30 want 5 minute races,Guess how minutes were racing for.. Just in this thread alone their are more against longer races than for them.
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Old 12-08-2005, 12:22 PM   #131
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Well, the heat issue is starting to be addressed, with the advent of motor coolers..

Heck, I just bought myself a $14 peltier unit from eBay that does twice the output of the MM one, blew the dust off of an old CPU heatsink/Fan unit on my shelf, and I have myself a cooler. Just powered it with a butchered old computer power supply, and I'm laughing at the blokes paying $125 for theirs.

It really makes a difference with the temp after 5 minutes, and it's oh-so-cheap. I don't see why another minute couldn't be had with this little thing.
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Old 03-14-2009, 02:34 AM   #132
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This is just my opinion..... honestly I don't mind racing for 5 minutes or 6 minutes. I think with current technology in lipo batteries, brushless motor, and motor coolers, 6 minutes for club racing or racing event less than 50 participants should be allowed ( .... of course after everyone and the racing comitee have agreement to run 6 minutes ).
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Old 03-14-2009, 10:56 PM   #133
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Way to bring up a ancient thread...
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Old 03-15-2009, 01:19 AM   #134
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Way to bring up a ancient thread...
I think it should be brought back up...the Bass Pro Series ran 7 minute qualifiers and mains in TC last season, and we had planned on going to 8 minutes for this year had the economy not taken a dump on us. I don't think ROAR is ready or able to make that decision for the big races, but I am glad to see them increase the time from 5 to 6 mins. I still encourage the local clubs to give it a try...everyone here loved the longer races, and personally I enjoy the challenge of setting up a car that will run consistent laps for that length race. It's not for everyone obviously (I know some clubs probably have 100+ cars on any given race day) but it doesn't hurt to try.

-rocky b
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