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Old 09-29-2006, 04:30 AM   #5746
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hey all

my mate wants a set up for a the std xray t2 for rubber on carpet (vetc 24rs)

thourt u lot would be the best to help

thanks
bob
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Old 09-29-2006, 05:11 AM   #5747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob33
hey all

my mate wants a set up for a the std xray t2 for rubber on carpet (vetc 24rs)

thourt u lot would be the best to help

thanks
bob
Have him do a search for T2/rubber/carpet in the XRAY Forum Set-up Sheets.
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Old 09-29-2006, 06:05 AM   #5748
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Happy to have triggered that discussion on shocks

Key observations:
1- Most of the official guys keep saying the stock shocks are great and that it's a matter of applying the right skills when building them and that it's your fault for not getting them built right
2- Most of the joeschmoe's like me with no emotional/financial attachment to the brand keep bashing the stock shocks (confirmed at the track)
3- Most of the joeschmoe's like me who have tried TRF shocks say it's a non-issue for them

Key possible conclusions:
1- Most of the sponsored guys are positively biased
AND/OR
2- Most of the joeschmoe's like me are dumb
AND/OR
3- TRF shocks seem to rock no matter what, even for skill-challenged folks like me

On 1- I can't do anything about that and can't be sure either
On 2- well I can only keep trying but I'm tired of loosing time - Maybe they're fantastic but unfortunately if I can't, I can't and I have to find a solution.
On 3- well... looks to me like the way to go for peace of mind, don't you think?

Cheers
Paul

PS: Can someone from the official team please confirm which brand pistons are used by the world-class drivers in their Xray shocks? I also heard they weren't Xray. Rumor or truth?
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Old 09-29-2006, 06:28 AM   #5749
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Default Plastic T2R outdrives...part number?

I searching for these, anyone know who has them in stock?
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Old 09-29-2006, 06:31 AM   #5750
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Why do people think that if Xray thought that the alloy were better they would use them?

The manufacor does not always know best. Look at the flex tech for carpet. Now they are eating words that were said we did not need a new chassis. So now 9 months later the flex chassis is not good for carpet. The Xray club members will stand by and say it is not needed and is an update I am sure. I do not think we will have Juri (don't know how to spell his name right now) come on here and say they screwed up and was wrong about the chassis fr carpet. It is all marketing. They want to sell cars and parts. I do not blame them for that.

The reason I went to the worlds best shocks, The TRF's. Was because I broke 2 plastic bodies in a very light tag with a wall. I have crashed worse with my Pro4 and FT TC4 that had alloy bodies and no problems.

I firmly believe the reason they choose to stay with plastic is cost. Nothing else. I have talke to people that have busted the plastic bodies on the Xray cars. So I know I was not the only one.

Any way. Rock on with the TRF's!
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Old 09-29-2006, 06:41 AM   #5751
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OK this shock issue kind of makes laugh.

We spend so much time and money on this hobby to get faster and faster.
Yet we aren't willing to learn something different than what we already have learned. As I understand why peeps like the TRF shocks (yes I agree are easier) but where I disagree on is that TRF are easier to get the rebounds the same compared to Xrays. As I always felt that you either had 100% rebound or 0% rebound on the TRF/YOK/COR shocks. With Xray I can get 50% or 75% or 25% and get all four the same.

If you follow the directions or ask a team driver at your next race to show you how to set the shocks up, (HINT HINT HINT) once you understand the procedure it is really easy to get them perfect compared to other shocks.
I have had Yokomo, TRF, Corally, HPI and now Xray and to be honest the Xray are the easiest as no other of those try have an easier way to bleed out the air.

I use the Tamiya shock pump air remover and there is still air trapped, so the bleeding of Xray shocks is a upgrade to the others listed.
Now I do understand why, and I am not a hater for you using another brand....USE WHAT WORKS FOR YOU...
But to bash the Xray shocks is kind of a mute point.

If you don't want to learn how to bleed and get them right that is fine but stop the abuse...
I want a really fast motor but if I didn't learn how to true a comm and break in brushes the right way, I wouldn't have a really fast motor, so that is why I learned how.
It just seems funny how peeps say..."Oh I guess I am just stupid, cause I can not figure it out" That seems to be the actual problem.
Read the instruction. PM A team member I am sure they would go over their procedure. That is what I did to get a full understanding of how to build and rebuild shocks. Once you know, you know and it makes setting up your car that much easier.

Heck that is what the Team guys are there for.
Post up a question in the Xray Forums and I am sure there would be plenty of respounce as to HOW TO CORRECTLY BUILD AND BLEED XRAY SHOCKS....

Sorry if you guys think the Xray guys are bashing you.
I feel they have tried to explain how and peeps keep saying Xray shocks are bad.
I am not spouncered, and I love Xray shocks.
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Old 09-29-2006, 06:45 AM   #5752
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Seeing as I am biased, I would like to see if there are any non-sponsored XRAY drivers (joeschmoe's) that have positive comments on the composite XRAY shocks.

The question for me is whether the majority of XRAY drivers have been silent on this topic, or are they actually those who have been posting until this point.

Anyone?
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Old 09-29-2006, 06:47 AM   #5753
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Well there's one, before I even posted the question...
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Old 09-29-2006, 07:17 AM   #5754
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Note that i said "most of" and not "all of" I don't challenge that some folks are better than me at this exercise, I'm just saying that I don't seem to be the only one not being able to get them right. Anyways... yes , honest, I'll try the step-by-step bleeding method again as described in the FAQ page on the xray site.

And don't get me wrong,I also fully appreciate the efforts done by the team to patiently explain intellectually challenged (and remember most of the population is average )racers like us how to do it, as well as the amount of info on the xray site... I have to say though that it looks like the method decribed is time consuming (I think I saw the words "patience" and such repeated a few times) as opposed to other "fill'em and bleed'em" shocks. I believe most of it is the counterpart of external adjustability, with all the notches inside the shock body to be able to lock the bottom part of the pison when changing the number of open holes: that's a lot of places for air to get trapped.

By the way, I do use a ride vacuum pump (same as Tamiya), I've had it for a few years, and indeed, as explained in the FAQ page, it takes about 7-8 attempts to fully remove the air from the shocks - this only is awfully time-consuming at the track in between two runs (especially on raceday)...

Cheers,
Paul
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Old 09-29-2006, 07:36 AM   #5755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCknight
I searching for these, anyone know who has them in stock?
As far I know they aren't out yet. Stormer is on back order right now, Ashford doesn't list them (I could be wrong). My guess is they'll be in with the next shipment or two. If you are looking for them I do have a complete diff. that I am not going to use that came directly off a T2R. I only assembled them and that was that. Never ran, and smooth as butter. Pm me or e-mail for details if you would like. I have it posted in the for sale forum as well.
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Old 09-29-2006, 07:50 AM   #5756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonestar
...By the way, I do use a ride vacuum pump (same as Tamiya), I've had it for a few years, and indeed, as explained in the FAQ page, it takes about 7-8 attempts to fully remove the air from the shocks - this only is awfully time-consuming at the track in between two runs (especially on raceday)...
Paul,

You shouldn't have to fill and bleed them in between runs at the track. If they're built correctly, and the piston isn't too close to the bladder when in operation, then they should last at least a few weekends before the rebound lessens too much. If they leak a lot for more than a few packs, and lose all rebound, then the piston is too close to the bladder. Three tips to help eliminate this are:

1. Screw the bottom ball end all the way onto the rod with only 1mm left of thread
2. Make sure you bleed a little out the bottom, then retighten the top cap all the way TIGHT and continue with the bleeding process to get the desired rebound. I made the mistake of not tightening mine a lot, until early this year.
3. Lengthen the space in between the upper and lower shock mounting positions, by using the outside lower position (key) and one of the top three outside positions. This usually means going to a softer spring. However, the overall stability of the rear end will increase and you'll be surprised at how stiff a rear spring you can use to get the T2 to rotate consisently and predictably when using the outer lower rear shock mounting positions.

A quick check to see if the shock pistons are to high is to look at how far down the top collar is on the body threads when the car is fully setup (including ride height). A good rule of thumb is that the collars should be screwed down at least four full rotations from the top. I have mine as close to the bottom as possible and they are 7.5 full turns down from the top.
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Old 09-29-2006, 07:54 AM   #5757
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Totally non-sponsored "Joe Schmoe" here...First time I built X-Ray shocks it was very frustrating, the whole "bleed from the bottom" idea seemed stupid to me. So...I built 'em like I built my old rally shocks (I'm on my 3rd X-Ray btw) & they work perfect. I fill the shock bodies ~95% full, pump the piston 6-8 times slowly to remove all air bubbles, push the piston in ~2/3rds, push in the bladder, add the cap...perfect every time in about 5 minutes. Shocks are always very smooth, might need to have a bit of oil added every 5-7 weeks - minor leakage IMO. I have also never had a shock break (have never heard of anyone I race with breaking one either). But maybe I'm doing something wrong...

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Old 09-29-2006, 07:55 AM   #5758
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I am sponsored by my own wallet and now I drive XRAY T2.

Before this, I drove HPI, Alex Racing and Tamiya (withTRF shocks)

I do agree that TRF shocks are good. But I dont have any problem building the XRAY T2 shocks.

I bleed, set the rebound and balance the shock without problems at all.
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Old 09-29-2006, 08:23 AM   #5759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgeguy
I firmly believe the reason they choose to stay with plastic is cost. Nothing else. I have talke to people that have busted the plastic bodies on the Xray cars. So I know I was not the only one.
Actually the plastic one is `better` for shaft movement (at least for me). I guess it`s only because of the current design that favor the plastic housing. Yes, they do not hold as better as the aluminum one. If they make the bottom plastic that hold pivot ball softer, it may have chance to disconnect on collision. Just a matter of substitution in which the manufacturer chose the best combination according to their research.

It`s also true Xray/old serpent damper is not for average joe to build. Otherwise they won`t make any `additional` guideline for it. The very first tip on how to build this kind of damper came from Art Carbonell (from serpent) on the early days. I wrote my version (link in my signature) for serpent shock in particular. It does not perform any less nor leak any higher than the TRF damper.
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Old 09-29-2006, 08:25 AM   #5760
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I too seem to have problems with the shocks. It seems like that make too much noise? Should they be completely quiet? After I bleed them they always seem to have noise to them.
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