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Old 03-03-2006, 07:03 PM   #3676
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IT's NOT THE RIGHT REAR HUB!!!!!!

I recently bought a new T2 kit, later production run and had no problem with the rear toe in, both sides took the same amount of spacers.
Yesterday I got a used T2 , from the Speedtech preorder and noticed the shimming is different left and right, 3mm left and 2mm right.
Went right to the Integy setup station and found rear toe to be 2mm per side.
After reading about all the problems with this I decided to take the right rear hub off the new, no-problem car, and installed it on the older version car.
No Difference! still has 2mm right side toe without changing the shims, 3mm left and 2mm right.

I did this just to satisfy my own curiosity. I'm not upset with the used car, got a great deal and can live with the funky shimming.

The box does say "Xray guarantees this model kit to be free from defects in both material and workmanship"
I'd say this is a defect in workmanship.
I would hope that a company of this high caliber would step up to the plate and take car of the problem.

Next step is to measure the wheel base, left and right after shimming both sides the same. Will do that later tonight and post.

Fred Forg
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Old 03-03-2006, 07:20 PM   #3677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBORAT
to be honest, i always felt myself that it couldn't have ever been a chassis problem because of what you just said. in a way, i just wanted it to come from someone else that people would believe .... like someone with a new aftermarket chassis. i dont even think its that big a deal that the rear hubs were slightly off .... i just shim it and get on with it ....
the car i used to make my chassis from was dead nuts with hole locations.i saw that there was some concern with that before i started the project.i made sure that i double,tripple and quadroople checked the locations and they were spot on with both the chassis and top decks.i have pretty much run every car on the market.this is fun for me and it allows me to find my likes and dislikes of every style of car and chassis layout.in this time i have come to the conclusion that when you build a car that has long bulkheads(cyclone,T2,415msx ect)you need to pay close attention to the assembly.the reason for this is when you sucure long piece to a plate,you will have variables.the screw heads can run eccentric to the threads,.001-.003 tolerance on the hole locations on the part being secured,.002 or so bow to the material and so on.these are all standard variables in manufacturing.now if you assemble a 4 inch long piece of aluminum to a plate,if you have a .002 variation in the hole location(not bad at all and still very close tolerance),over the coarse of 4 inches,that small amount becomes exagerated due to the physical length of the part and now may be mounted at a .5 - 1 degree angle.this is very difficult to avoid when mounting a long pice of material.this is why when i do have this to tackle,i always try to countersink the mounting holes on all mounting positions top and bottom because it will give you a better chance of correction.to ask for it to be 100% perfect is not reasonable.where you reep benefits in one area you suffer in another.there needs to be a happy medium and that is minor adjustments to achieve the most accurate setting you can.sorry for being so long winded.
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Old 03-03-2006, 09:15 PM   #3678
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Default I love the stock upper/chassis...since it has the flex options...

but with the screws loose you can shift it forward and back about 1mm. I can see why the car tweaks easy. Anyone know if Xray will release a newer stock upper deck that fits better? The holes in the upper deck are too large for the screws. I'll be looking forward to getting a new version of it or even a 3mm one. Yea...I wish Xray would sell the springs in 2s and make them all black or make each rate a different color. Are the pinks accually light reds? They look pink to me, but I don't see pink springs anywhere on the set up chart. I would also pay more to have the cell slots cnc, it's a pain.

Last edited by RCknight; 03-03-2006 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 03-03-2006, 09:19 PM   #3679
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RCKNIGHT

get a BMI chassis kits you will be very happy for the fit an finish. the graphite is better also. And jasun does very nice work
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Old 03-03-2006, 09:27 PM   #3680
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Or you can also get the Stiff Pickle from Team Pickles. There are a few choices out there right now. Why wait for Xray? Seems like everyone already is.

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Old 03-03-2006, 09:59 PM   #3681
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Default Umm....I don't see how the graphite is better.

I question these other companies that claim their graphite is better. No outward claims on laying the sheets in a 360 config. Xray's graphite is very stiff and it has the best finish I have seen yet. No dents and etc. I can't say the same for other compaines, unless I just got a bad one. I want the option of running rubber tires and/or carpet. I'll stay with the Xray for now. I would take a stock cut, gloss black, 3mm chassis with a fixed upper deck and BMI shock towers.

Last edited by RCknight; 03-03-2006 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 03-03-2006, 10:35 PM   #3682
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IT's NOT THE RIGHT REAR HUB!!!!!!

Did the wheel base measurment:
The chassis with the 3mm left and 2mm right rear toe shims to get 2mm toe/side.
The right side wheel base is 2mm longer than the left side.
This was measured from the outer hinge pin holes from front to rear susp arms.
When the right side toe spacing is 1mm less than the left side it also sweeps the right arm back further than the left arm.
So now to equalize the wheel base I moved the right arm forward 2mm.
Now it looks really stupid!
On my new chassis the distance is spot on for both left and right.

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Old 03-03-2006, 11:51 PM   #3683
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Default Need help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCknight
Please...I'm making an order a.s.a.p. Are the pinks really the light reds or light purples? Please what is the spring rate for the springs that look pink? I must be color blind or something.
Thanks.
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Old 03-04-2006, 01:35 AM   #3684
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Default T2

Hey Fred,

Bring both cars to the track on Sunday if you go, I would like to see whats up.

Steve
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Old 03-04-2006, 02:53 AM   #3685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protc3
the car i used to make my chassis from was dead nuts with hole locations.i saw that there was some concern with that before i started the project.i made sure that i double,tripple and quadroople checked the locations and they were spot on with both the chassis and top decks.i have pretty much run every car on the market.this is fun for me and it allows me to find my likes and dislikes of every style of car and chassis layout.in this time i have come to the conclusion that when you build a car that has long bulkheads(cyclone,T2,415msx ect)you need to pay close attention to the assembly.the reason for this is when you sucure long piece to a plate,you will have variables.the screw heads can run eccentric to the threads,.001-.003 tolerance on the hole locations on the part being secured,.002 or so bow to the material and so on.these are all standard variables in manufacturing.now if you assemble a 4 inch long piece of aluminum to a plate,if you have a .002 variation in the hole location(not bad at all and still very close tolerance),over the coarse of 4 inches,that small amount becomes exagerated due to the physical length of the part and now may be mounted at a .5 - 1 degree angle.this is very difficult to avoid when mounting a long pice of material.this is why when i do have this to tackle,i always try to countersink the mounting holes on all mounting positions top and bottom because it will give you a better chance of correction.to ask for it to be 100% perfect is not reasonable.where you reep benefits in one area you suffer in another.there needs to be a happy medium and that is minor adjustments to achieve the most accurate setting you can.sorry for being so long winded.
As I am sure you know, and trig will prove it, a difference across four inches of length of up to say .020 will only result in .25 degrees off of centerline. As the distance of one degree per ince is .0174. So, if the bulkheads were off 1 degree, across four inches the holes would be off nearly .070 thousanths of an inch. Thats HUGE. And would be probably visible to the eye. My bulkheads are not off that much, cause they look straight. (calibrated eyeball). But my toe in was off due to the rear uprights, as I stated long before XRay admitted the problem.

The problem with the tweak is due to the fact that the bulkheads are mounted so close together, these cars being reffered to as a "Ladder chassis". The T1 (FK04) didn't tweak as bad because the bulkheads were mounted farter apart, giving the chassis more ultimate tweak resistance. Although the geometry of the the chassis, and the material didn't necessarily make it as ridged as a T2 can be, given similar material thickness and top deck spacing (top deck extending from the bulkheads) I believe the T1 line would be a more stiff chassis layout.

That being said, however, my T2 is faster than my 04 was.
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Old 03-04-2006, 06:52 AM   #3686
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i was speaking of worst case situation of the holes being off a slight bit in each direction and i was also just throwing a number out there.not actual trigging it out.with the spacing of 4 inches between the holes with a angle change of .25 degrees it would be a total of a .0175 shift of the holes.now if you take into consideration how many different areas can be within reasonable tolerance on top and bottom,it is difficult to have it perfect.with all of the assembled components on these cars you will not have it 100 % perfect.there are many variables here including the molding tolerances.i assembled a car that after assembly,the bulkheads were .020 more narrow at the rear of the rear bulkheads than they were at the front of the rear bulkheads.this is with the holes in chassis being perfectly in line with eachother.i found that after assembling the car with the c/f components countersunk,this changed to a .003 variance from front to rear.this is what i am speaking of.
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Old 03-04-2006, 06:55 AM   #3687
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the toe on this car was off by .5 degrees at first.i checked the rear hubs and the hole angle was dead on.i have not checked the hinge pin blocks or arms yet though.after the countersunk components were put on,it was better but still not perfect.there is a slight variance somewhere but i think it is mainly in the assembly.
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Old 03-04-2006, 08:27 AM   #3688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBORAT
L.Fairtrace: after fitting on the BMI chassis, how does the rear toe measure up now? Are you getting the same amount on both sides? Reason I ask is because some people say (including x-ray) the problem is in the hubs, while others say its coz of mis aligned holes on the chassis .... this may help us isolate if its one or the other, or both that is cuasing the rear toe problem. thanks!
I am running a pickle chassis and the rear toe does not change it is in the rear hud . I traded left huds with a friend and now it's the the same on both sides.
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Old 03-04-2006, 08:59 AM   #3689
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the team pickles chasis is the same just with out the flexing
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Old 03-04-2006, 10:42 AM   #3690
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got my esc thursday, finished the car the same day and then raced it friday (last night). great car! the switch to this car from a TC4 is well worth the money i should have just bought the xray in the first place

does anyone know where to get a spring set for this car? i'd rather buy the whole set than by pairs so i have everything in my box.
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