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Old 02-13-2006, 11:59 AM   #3076
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Ok, here's a T2 question to keep this thread on track.

With the T2 you can adjust the rear toe-in two ways, inboard with spacers, and outboard with uprights. Does changing the toe-in inboard vs. outboard change the handling of the car? Or is rear toe-in simply toe-in no matter how it's accomplished (inboard vs. outboard)?
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Old 02-13-2006, 12:01 PM   #3077
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Ok I am a total newb to on-road and I have been looking at getting an xray. I always liked how the batteries were split in a saddle for weight distribution but now I see they moved to a setup with the batts on one side. Why did they change it?

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Old 02-13-2006, 12:05 PM   #3078
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batteries are alot easier to install if they are all on one side. Dont need to split up your packs.
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Old 02-13-2006, 12:08 PM   #3079
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony.L
Ok, here's a T2 question to keep this thread on track.

With the T2 you can adjust the rear toe-in two ways, inboard with spacers, and outboard with uprights. Does changing the toe-in inboard vs. outboard change the handling of the car? Or is rear toe-in simply toe-in no matter how it's accomplished (inboard vs. outboard)?

Yes. example

0 degree hubs with 3 degree inside
vs
3 degree hubs with 0 degrees inside

the car will handle differnet. how much difference will you actually feel i dont know. i do know it will react different. im no engineer so i cant tell you why but i along with friends have done testing in the past.


update for my first race night with the t2. Sat at so cal raceway was my first night back racing in 1 year and my second day with the car. Qual 2nd and ended up taking the win in the main. Car is unbelieveably stable and carries wicked corner speed. the stability is what amazes me most from this car its feel is so balanced. again first night back in 1 year went up with local losi driver randy catser new tamiya driver josh numan hot bodies driver steve weiss all who have been running and i was right on pace. my driving was irratic and definitely not that great the car was what helped me feel comfertable and able to drive stable and pull some fast laps.

As far as the tweak issues you are having it goes like this.. any car that is flat graphite can and will tweak. when you hit something with anycar stuff is bound to twist bend move out of alignment. if you do not build your car right meaning if you dont go thru and make sure your shock towers arent tweaked when you screwqed them on or your top deck being tight when you tighten down your bulkheads. YOUR CAR WILL TWEAK its the force of you screwing things in wrong.

easy fix

loosen all your screws go thru tighten each individual bulk head first then tighten down your showck towers pushing them down in the middle to stay flat then place your car on a flat board and tighten down your top

your car will be fine UNTIL you hit something and depending on how hard you hit something determines how much your car will tweak.

every car has it and will continue to have it just put the effort in to go thru your car after you crash and re scrtew your parts down in order.

more fixes are countersinking your top dek and shock towers which is a nice plus but is not nessecary.
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Old 02-13-2006, 12:36 PM   #3080
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Swanson
Yes. example

0 degree hubs with 3 degree inside
vs
3 degree hubs with 0 degrees inside
Exactly, here's more details and my situation exactly. I'm in need of rear hubs, stock ones are 1 degree outboard toe. Spacers inboard give it another 2 degrees for 3 degrees total. I will have new hubs here shortly, but they are 2 degress of outboard toe. I'm going to change the inboard spacers to 1 degree to still maintain the same overall rear toe-in. The question is, will this change the handling of my car to any extent that is noticable on the track?
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Old 02-13-2006, 12:40 PM   #3081
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Swanson

update for my first race night with the t2. Sat at so cal raceway was my first night back racing in 1 year and my second day with the car.
Nice to see you back in racing, Andrew!

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Old 02-13-2006, 12:52 PM   #3082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony.L
Exactly, here's more details and my situation exactly. I'm in need of rear hubs, stock ones are 1 degree outboard toe. Spacers inboard give it another 2 degrees for 3 degrees total. I will have new hubs here shortly, but they are 2 degress of outboard toe. I'm going to change the inboard spacers to 1 degree to still maintain the same overall rear toe-in. The question is, will this change the handling of my car to any extent that is noticable on the track?
I asked GP from Xray a similar question. Since then I changed to 2deg outboard rear toe. After having done so as oppose to the inboard tow I had prior, I got a lot more rear end stability in and out of the turns. Also, I got a lot more corner speed. With the greater stability, I was able to dial in some more on-power steering without worries of losing it on a turn. So to answer you YES it is noticeable!
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Old 02-13-2006, 12:55 PM   #3083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Swanson
update for my first race night with the t2. Sat at so cal raceway was my first night back racing in 1 year and my second day with the car. Qual 2nd and ended up taking the win in the main. Car is unbelieveably stable and carries wicked corner speed. the stability is what amazes me most from this car its feel is so balanced. again first night back in 1 year went up with local losi driver randy catser new tamiya driver josh numan hot bodies driver steve weiss all who have been running and i was right on pace. my driving was irratic and definitely not that great the car was what helped me feel comfertable and able to drive stable and pull some fast laps.

As far as the tweak issues you are having it goes like this.. any car that is flat graphite can and will tweak. when you hit something with anycar stuff is bound to twist bend move out of alignment. if you do not build your car right meaning if you dont go thru and make sure your shock towers arent tweaked when you screwqed them on or your top deck being tight when you tighten down your bulkheads. YOUR CAR WILL TWEAK its the force of you screwing things in wrong.

easy fix

loosen all your screws go thru tighten each individual bulk head first then tighten down your showck towers pushing them down in the middle to stay flat then place your car on a flat board and tighten down your top

your car will be fine UNTIL you hit something and depending on how hard you hit something determines how much your car will tweak.

every car has it and will continue to have it just put the effort in to go thru your car after you crash and re scrtew your parts down in order.

more fixes are countersinking your top dek and shock towers which is a nice plus but is not nessecary.
Awesome info man and thanks for bringing some common sense into the conversation. Regardless of marketing lingo, any graphite car with a top plate is susceptable to tweak, and the Xray T2 is no different. It might also seem more prone to tweak since the topdeck has more screw locations that are not countersunk.

Just like you mentioned, there are techniques we can follow to limit the potential of tweak and this of course would depend on the skill of each racer to build and maintain his car. IMHO, if small crashes are tweaking your chassis, then you are not paying enough attention to how you are tightening the screws and the top plate is shifting under load.

I have ran my T2 now over 3 race days and my results are similar to yours, the car is extremely stable and is easier to drive fast. It never feels sketchy and as a result, the car "feels" slow but laptimes do not lie and with everything else the same, I am definately faster with my T2 then I ever was with my FK05.
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Old 02-13-2006, 01:07 PM   #3084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony.L
Ok, here's a T2 question to keep this thread on track.

With the T2 you can adjust the rear toe-in two ways, inboard with spacers, and outboard with uprights. Does changing the toe-in inboard vs. outboard change the handling of the car? Or is rear toe-in simply toe-in no matter how it's accomplished (inboard vs. outboard)?
The way I understand it is: with inboard toe, the hinge pin is at an angle (not parallel to the chassis) so it "binds" the suspension. With the toe outboard on the arm, the suspension operates more efficiently. When you sweep the arm back and put the toe outboard it also increases your track length. Does it matter? Ask the guys who are shimming one side different than the other to fix their "toe" problems. I doubt you'll notice, but it's always the little things that give you the extra .002 per lap that you need to win.
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Old 02-13-2006, 01:16 PM   #3085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stiltskin
The way I understand it is: with inboard toe, the hinge pin is at an angle (not parallel to the chassis) so it "binds" the suspension. With the toe outboard on the arm, the suspension operates more efficiently.
That's the kind of stuff I was looking to hear. Sounds like the 2 degree outboard toe might be the ticket anyways.
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Old 02-13-2006, 02:33 PM   #3086
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I didn't have the oppertunity to drive my T2. Indoor is not my piece of cake and for outdoor it is too cold

I read a lot about tweaking / not tweaking etc.

I don't wanna start the yes / no discussion again, but i wonder why the very well skilled Jurai and his team didn't countersink the top-deck. The '05 deck was.

Can anybody shine a light on this?
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Old 02-13-2006, 02:55 PM   #3087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertV
Awesome info man and thanks for bringing some common sense into the conversation. Regardless of marketing lingo, any graphite car with a top plate is susceptable to tweak, and the Xray T2 is no different. It might also seem more prone to tweak since the topdeck has more screw locations that are not countersunk.

Just like you mentioned, there are techniques we can follow to limit the potential of tweak and this of course would depend on the skill of each racer to build and maintain his car. IMHO, if small crashes are tweaking your chassis, then you are not paying enough attention to how you are tightening the screws and the top plate is shifting under load.

I have ran my T2 now over 3 race days and my results are similar to yours, the car is extremely stable and is easier to drive fast. It never feels sketchy and as a result, the car "feels" slow but laptimes do not lie and with everything else the same, I am definately faster with my T2 then I ever was with my FK05.
exactly people need to stop bashging the t2 saying OMG it tweaks cause in reality all the cars tweak no matter the manufacturer

and i agree i wish they had sunk the top deck screws but i can do that on my own but take your time do it right and your car will be good
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Old 02-13-2006, 03:03 PM   #3088
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LoL, my stiffzel XXX-S never tweaked!! Man, you should see how hard i hit the boards with it too since I suck!! Too bad it isn't competitive though!!

If you haven't noticed, I am just putting a little humor in here, but my humor is kinda like my driving, not very good...
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Old 02-13-2006, 03:08 PM   #3089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisNyholm
LoL, my stiffzel XXX-S never tweaked!! Man, you should see how hard i hit the boards with it too since I suck!! Too bad it isn't competitive though!!

If you haven't noticed, I am just putting a little humor in here, but my humor is kinda like my driving, not very good...

hehe
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Old 02-13-2006, 03:12 PM   #3090
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I ran my car this weekend and was in some huge hits, however my car performed great. I did not notice any tweak, but even if i did it takes only a few seconds to correct by re-screwing down the top deck.

I did it on my car, my friend did it on the cylcones, and others were doing it on there msx's. I think it is just a part of racing, and it takes a minute to do.

I do have to say the car ran great, i was so happy with it. This was only my third time running 1/10 scale and I was the BQ, i would have made the A if it wasn't for a racing incident (We'll leave that story for those that care..)

I have to give a big shout out to Korgae from canwest RC, he & his team helped me out numerous times.

can wait till the next race.
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