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Old 11-26-2005, 10:00 PM   #1
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Default Help with battery

I had a Quatum Competition 2 charger, Muchmore discharger.

last week, after race i discharged all my batteries by competition2 then left them on the Muchmore discharger for 1 day. yesterday before I went to race, i charged them. 2 of the batteries reached 4200 while they are standard 3600 batteries. today, when i put them on the car, they all out of power. then i charged them again, they can only reach 600mAh. are they die?

so sad, 2 batteries like that.
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Old 11-26-2005, 11:36 PM   #2
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Hi,

if im not mistaken u are using Pulsar Competition 2 charger. What is your batteries brand ? is it Intellect IB3600 ? Intellect battery cannot be discharge until 0.0v/cell on a discharge tray. But if you are using GP battery this will not be a problem. IB battery suck, u need to buy Novak Smart discharger to discharge it (normally 0.9v/cell). Have a nice day.
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Old 11-26-2005, 11:38 PM   #3
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actually i had problem with Sanyo batteries, 3600amh
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Old 11-26-2005, 11:55 PM   #4
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Sounds to me like basically you deadshorted them (by leaving onthe discharger), tried them out and they felt dead. So you tried charging them again and they only took a bit of a charge.

After dead shorting they are going to feel like junk for a couple of cycles. It's why I quit dead shorting. If you didn't discharge them on the charger or in the car and just tried to charge them again, they weren't actually cycled or dead just very flat.

So you didn't get a cycle thru them just repeaked them. Use your discharger and discharge them. Let them cool then recharge and run em and hopefully they'll be better for you after a couple runs.
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Old 11-27-2005, 11:42 AM   #5
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Quote:
when i put them on the car, they all out of power. then i charged them again, they can only reach 600mAh. are they die?

The first thing you want to do to bring your batteris up is to charge them at only 2 - 3 amps, no more than that. Let them charge at that rate, they should get a full charge. After that, discharge them to .8V/cell...let them cool down or wait 12 hours...then charge them again at your normal charging rate. If you did not damage the cells by overdischarging this will bring the cells back up.

You will need to cycle the cells at least 4 times for them to come back up, as long as yo did not damage them.
More people damage cells by overdischarging them...do not do that.

and btw,
Quote:
IB battery suck,
anyone that claims that IB3800s s... is WRONG!!! there is not a better cell in the market at the time!!! You just need to know how to assemble, charge and cycle your IB packs...

Go to this link to find out the FACTS ABOUT dead shorting!!! http://www.axxis-racing.com/faq.html...7D5B6C038D3E31 and http://www.axxis-racing.com/faq.html...D5B6C41E1B2690 ....and http://www.axxis-racing.com/howto.html to get information on how to use IBs the right way.

I hope this will help you get your batteries back...

Last edited by BATT_MAN; 11-27-2005 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 11-27-2005, 12:35 PM   #6
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on the battery care note. where can i find some good guidelines about careing for gp3300's. old i know, but this is the first ive owned an electric car for over 10 years, and now im racing indoors for the winter to stay sharp for 1/8 buggy. so far i have an intellipeak digital charger and been charging at 5-6 amps. after my run, ive been putting them on a integy zerothirty tray, and leaving them discharged until the following week for racing. am i doing ok, if not, what am i doing wrong and how can i change it without spending a lot of money on more equipment. oh and i race stock if it matters.
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Old 11-27-2005, 01:08 PM   #7
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Follow the same recomendations that we oulined for the IB3800...

YOu do not want to keep the batteries on the Integy 030 discharger for more than a few minutes after the lights go off. The 030 has a resistance of 0.033ohms and that is too low... To equalize batteries you want to do that at no more than 4 amps...
The best thinng to do to the 3300s is to discharge them just for 1 minute after the lights go off, then charge the pack to 1100 mah. Store it like that. The night before you race, discharge it on the 030 for no more than 8 minutes. Let the pack rest. The day of the race just charge at 5.5A and go for it. Do not use the packs more than twice a day. The GPs do not like that.

Then just follow the same procedure. This should keep you GP3300s in top shape for the racing season.

Do not discharge your batteries above 20 amps if at all possible. The Integy 030 actually starts at around 36 ampsand then drops down to 15 amps when you reach 0.5 volts/cell.... That is just pushing the cells...
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Old 11-27-2005, 01:37 PM   #8
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do you recommend a different tray then? the 030 is a friend of mine's but i was about to get one for myself. my charger only discharges at 10A. and i was told that isnt enough, it also cannot discharge to 0.0V. basically im looking to get only 1 more piece of equipment, the tray, and not have to buy a seperate high rate discharger as well.
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Old 11-27-2005, 02:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
my charger only discharges at 10A. and i was told that isnt enough, it also cannot discharge to 0.0V. basically im looking to get only 1 more piece of equipment, the tray, and not have to buy a seperate high rate discharger as well.

Hi,

There is a tremendous amount of misinformation out there.

There is nothing wrong if you discharge your batteries at 10 amps... The only time you want to use a higher discharge rare is when the batteries will not be used for a while, but even then, you can get the same results by discharging at 10-15 amps.

The problem with discharging at high rates is that you WILL damage your cells. Heat is the main cause of battery failure. Batteries work on an endothermic principle, and if you overheat them you will loose power and performance.

Also, IBs do not like to be brought down all the way to 0 volts. We found that 0.6 volts sems to work OK, and if you want to perform a complete equalization if the cells it has to be done at rates no higher than 4 amps.

We will be introducing our line of dischargers at the end of December, but if you want to get one from another company, I recommend either the Novak or Tekin. If you only want one piece of equipment, get the Novak smart tray.

Discharge your packs at 10 amps on your existing discharger to 0.9v/cell the put the pack on the tray and go from there.

If you need more help feel free to contact me.

Isaac
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www.axxis-racing.com
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Old 11-27-2005, 06:31 PM   #10
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Novak smart tray is the best one to use. And it won't hurt your batts. Little more pricey than the integy units but better on your batts and you don't have to babysit it.
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Old 11-27-2005, 08:24 PM   #11
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ok, and if i take your advice and get a smart tray, how should i care for my batteries, and how should i set the tray, etc. i have 4 packs i use for my 3 quals and main, and 2 additional packs i use for practice if i feel i need it. so each battery only needs to see 1 cycle per raceday. im looking to get the most average voltage i can out of the packs, even if i sacrifice runtime, since its only stock racing i have plenty of runtime left at the end of the round.
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Old 11-27-2005, 09:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BATT_MAN
The first thing you want to do to bring your batteris up is to charge them at only 2 - 3 amps, no more than that. Let them charge at that rate, they should get a full charge. After that, discharge them to .8V/cell...let them cool down or wait 12 hours...then charge them again at your normal charging rate. If you did not damage the cells by overdischarging this will bring the cells back up.

You will need to cycle the cells at least 4 times for them to come back up, as long as yo did not damage them.
More people damage cells by overdischarging them...do not do that.

and btw, anyone that claims that IB3800s s... is WRONG!!! there is not a better cell in the market at the time!!! You just need to know how to assemble, charge and cycle your IB packs...

Go to this link to find out the FACTS ABOUT dead shorting!!! http://www.axxis-racing.com/faq.html...7D5B6C038D3E31 and http://www.axxis-racing.com/faq.html...D5B6C41E1B2690 ....and http://www.axxis-racing.com/howto.html to get information on how to use IBs the right way.

I hope this will help you get your batteries back...
Good to know that,Battman.

I have tried once yesterday, charged at 2 amp and finally got to 3100, but after I discharge and recharged at the normal rate, it still get back to only 600. and I have to find out how to control to discharge it to 0.8 as you mentioned. and try again. thanks, hope i didnt kill them.............
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Old 11-27-2005, 11:56 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BATT_MAN
Hi,

Also, IBs do not like to be brought down all the way to 0 volts. We found that 0.6 volts sems to work OK, and if you want to perform a complete equalization if the cells it has to be done at rates no higher than 4 amps.

We will be introducing our line of dischargers at the end of December, but if you want to get one from another company, I recommend either the Novak or Tekin. If you only want one piece of equipment, get the Novak smart tray.

Discharge your packs at 10 amps on your existing discharger to 0.9v/cell the put the pack on the tray and go from there.

If you need more help feel free to contact me.

Isaac
Axxis Racing
www.axxis-racing.com
For me IB battery is suck because u need to have a Novak SMART tray. Do u want to buy Novak SMART tray for each of your IB batteries ? when u race, u need to discharge + equalize your battery before charging. As u know SMART tray take a long time to discharge a battery. So u might want to have 2 or 3 of SMART tray to help u. This will cost you more on IB battery maintainence. That's why i say IB battery suck !.

If you use a cheap discharge tray, u have to monitor the IB battery until 0.9v/cell. It's difficult to equalize an IB battery using cheap discharge tray (resistor only tray).

Compare to GP, u can use a cheap discharge tray. No need to monitor, cause GP battery can be discharge until 0.0V (all cells equalized). GP battery won't cause you more on battery maintainence.

IB is a good battery in term of it average voltage which is higher compared to GP. But it need a cheaper discharge/equalize tray. Hope someone can make a 0.85V cut-off discharge tray (no need to vary the cut off value). I hope Axxis-racing is doing R&D on this. Novak Smart tray is too expensive. Good luck guys, have a nice day.
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Old 11-28-2005, 12:00 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superdate
Good to know that,Battman.

I have tried once yesterday, charged at 2 amp and finally got to 3100, but after I discharge and recharged at the normal rate, it still get back to only 600. and I have to find out how to control to discharge it to 0.8 as you mentioned. and try again. thanks, hope i didnt kill them.............
It's look like youir battery Internal resistance already increase. Normally when IR increase the battery doesn't have more punch like usual. Maybe BATT_MAN can help u to decrease the IR...

Last edited by RC_Mice; 11-28-2005 at 12:44 AM.
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Old 11-28-2005, 01:26 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC_Mice
For me IB battery is suck because u need to have a Novak SMART tray. Do u want to buy Novak SMART tray for each of your IB batteries ? when u race, u need to discharge + equalize your battery before charging. As u know SMART tray take a long time to discharge a battery. So u might want to have 2 or 3 of SMART tray to help u. This will cost you more on IB battery maintainence. That's why i say IB battery suck !.

If you use a cheap discharge tray, u have to monitor the IB battery until 0.9v/cell. It's difficult to equalize an IB battery using cheap discharge tray (resistor only tray).

Compare to GP, u can use a cheap discharge tray. No need to monitor, cause GP battery can be discharge until 0.0V (all cells equalized). GP battery won't cause you more on battery maintainence.

IB is a good battery in term of it average voltage which is higher compared to GP. But it need a cheaper discharge/equalize tray. Hope someone can make a 0.85V cut-off discharge tray (no need to vary the cut off value). I hope Axxis-racing is doing R&D on this. Novak Smart tray is too expensive. Good luck guys, have a nice day.
You can still use the old Light Bulbs with the auto cut off (which stops discharge at around 5.4) then but the pack on the tray. BUt you only need to discharge to 5.4 volts after the race and then wait untill right before you charge again and put the pack on the tray. Doing this will only take a few minutes on the tray. I have only one, and it works just fine.
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