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Old 11-25-2005, 02:04 PM   #31
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Turbo 35 Gfx...
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Old 11-25-2005, 06:19 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper1
WOW! $100 packs,who charges that much for a pack of batteries? sounds lke somebodies gettin ripped off! I generally buy new batteries about every six-nine months or so which is probably more often than most people.If my batteries only lasted two months I would find a new matcher.
Not saying I pay that much for packs...Saying that if you go to the local hobby shop and want 1.21+V &425+sec...you can pay that much...I don't pay that much....
It is not that my packs go bad every two months its just that the newer the packs the better the voltage....After about 60 cycles your packs start to really loose there stuff...
Ask the local hero racer how often he gets new packs...
I have packs that are a year old also they are just practice packs....
If you race two classes every week...or even twice a week you too will go through packs...
Plus Southern California has a Ginormous amount of talent...and if you are going to be even competative you need the good batts more often...
Guess I take it more serious then most.
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Old 11-25-2005, 08:00 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ike
Just because you're charging cells individually doesn't mean the packs won't lose their match. Cells will react differently to the same charge, I would imagine there are still differences in a cell even though the numbers some matcher came up with are exactly the same...
This just begs for the question to be asked !

"Why do we need to match our cells" ....bearing in mind that cells are matched according to their runtime i.e: Discharge capacity.

Once upon a time, in a universe far far away,

During the days when Sanyo 1300 SC NiCd batteries was the best money can buy (Yes, Im that old)

The discharge capacity (DC) of your average un-matched pack looks like this:

123456
------ <- 7.2V
IIIIII
IIIIII
IIIIII
IIIII-
-II-I <- 5.4V
I- -
- >- 1.2V

Using a 1970 technology peak-detect charger was the way to go at that time, this charger detects the "AVERAGE" voltage of the pack so during charging, some cells are peaked correctly, the rest are either overcharged or undercharge:

123456
- <- #2 Undercharged
I- - <- #3,#5 Correct charge (Peak cutoff)
-II-I <- #1,#4,#6 Overcharged
IIIII-
IIIIII
IIIIII
IIIIII
------ <- 5.4V

As run time was a problem those days,we choose/match the cells according to their discharge capacity/Voltage. The DC of our matched pack now looks like this:

123456
------ <- 7.2V
IIIIII
IIIIII
IIIIII
IIIIII
IIIIII
IIIIII
------ <- 5.4V

Wonderful !
But in order to prevent the overcharge/undercharge condition during charging of the same pack, we discharge/equalise the pack to 5.4V/Deadshort. So that all cells have the same starting point during the start of the charging process.
....BUT cells with the same discharge capacity do not necessary have the same CHARGE capacity (CC), they may be quite close but there is a difference.
example, 2 cells have a DC of 3800 A/Hr. but cell A takes 4100 A/hr to peak and cell B takes only 3900 A/Hr to peak, their average would be 4000 A/Hr ....thus Cell A would be a little undercharge and Cell B a little overcharged.
The CC of our wonderful matched pack above looks like this (cell A = #1 Cell B = #2):

123456
- <- #1 Undercharged
I --- <- #3,#4,#5 Correct charge (Peak cutoff)
I-III- <- #2,#6 Overcharged
IIIIII
IIIIII
IIIIII
IIIIII
------ <-5.4V

Up til now, we are still using this 1970 technology to charge our battery packs without questions because there is nothing else available, But ICC or rather the concept should change all that, the same battery pack above should have a CC as follow:

123456
- <- #1 Correct charge (Peak cutoff)
I --- <- #3,#4,#5 Correct charge (Peak cutoff)
I-III- <- #2,#6 Correct charge (Peak cutoff)
IIIIII
IIIIII
IIIIII
IIIIII
------ <-5.4V

Now with this, we do not really care when each cell peaks so long as they peak at their individual max capacity without being overcharged. Now the million dollar question "Do we still need to MATCH our cells" ?
Maybe ! ..if you want cells with the highest voltage numbers. But as one major cell matcher in the industry said "cells have a tight average voltage range"

For a very long time, pple said the world was flat and if you went to the edge, you fall off ! ....it took someone to build a ship and sailed it around the globe to prove them wrong.

Sorry for the extreme ranting, ....but I'm in the office and the boss is out !

Last edited by Ghostfit; 11-25-2005 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 11-25-2005, 08:18 PM   #34
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lets hope they can make a batter charger, they couldnt even solve their problems with their discharger
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Old 11-25-2005, 08:29 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomah
lets hope they can make a batter charger, they couldnt even solve their problems with their discharger
Dude please stop bashing...
You are a keyboard junk talker...
Go back to where you came....
No one came in and insulted you or your products, so please stop this junk.
-Shookie <><
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Old 11-25-2005, 08:39 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Shookie
Dude please stop bashing...
You are a keyboard junk talker...
Go back to where you came....
No one came in and insulted you or your products, so please stop this junk.
-Shookie <><
I'll second that !
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Old 11-25-2005, 09:31 PM   #37
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Mr Shookie,

I'm not trying to be negative or anything like that,but with over 14 years in this hobby,I've seen and heard a LOT of claims,and I've learned to wait and see, that's really all I'm saying and boy am I glad I applied that theory with the spectrum,look at all the problems it's had.
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Old 11-25-2005, 09:46 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper1
Mr Shookie,

I'm not trying to be negative or anything like that,but with over 14 years in this hobby,I've seen and heard a LOT of claims,and I've learned to wait and see, that's really all I'm saying and boy am I glad I applied that theory with the spectrum,look at all the problems it's had.
I hear you about the spektrum.....I am not a fan...
The reason why I think the ICC willbe different is what I have learned from the manufacturer.
I have cummunicated with him alot on this product.
I have had fantasic results from there other product...Mainly the Battery Manager. It truely helps keep batteries in their best condittion.
I understand that alot of guys have been doing this hobby alot longer than I...
I am just saying what I have experienced and have found...
Ask anyone who knows me...I try the new stuff...If it is worth its salt I will say so If it doesn't I will say so if asked about it..
I have tried so many things....
I am hoping with great delight that this charger will not only help to keep my packs matched longer but to also help get the best possible charge.
I know that other manufacturers are also waiting to see if it will be worth its salt as well do to the competative market out there..
I do think this will not be cheap nor the geni's bottle of chargers.
Go into the ICC thread and read of all the features Erik has added just because he wants to give everyone the best possible charger.
There is alot to say for a Manufacturer that listens to the racers and tries to accomidate them all..
Just like the Much More Protype discharge tray...
Another great product to look at.
Sorry for the long winded post...Had coffee to late...LOL
Have a Blessed day.
-Shookie <><
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Old 11-25-2005, 09:52 PM   #39
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Part of the problem I've seen over the years is a new product may perform exactly as the manufacturer says it does, but that performance never shows up on the track.
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Old 11-25-2005, 09:57 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper1
Part of the problem I've seen over the years is a new product may perform exactly as the manufacturer says it does, but that performance never shows up on the track.
I hear ya...
Good Point...
I will give you all my overall review..as well will Hebiki....SO be on the look out..
-Shookie <><
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Old 11-25-2005, 09:58 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper1
Part of the problem I've seen over the years is a new product may perform exactly as the manufacturer says it does, but that performance never shows up on the track.
Hyper,

There is no magic pill, you still have to wheel it.

Chris
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Old 11-25-2005, 10:04 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Shookie
I hear ya...
Good Point...
I will give you all my overall review..as well will Hebiki....SO be on the look out..
-Shookie <><
Iam sure we will wiating on the edges of our seats wiating for YOUR review
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Old 11-25-2005, 10:08 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crimson eagle
Hyper,

There is no magic pill, you still have to wheel it.

Chris
I totally agree! an example of what I'm saying is such,I recently switched from GP 3300's to IB3800's very noticable difference on the track,But when I went from a T35BL to a T35GFX I couldn't tell any lap time difference on the track,but the GFX performs exactly as it's supposed to.
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Old 11-25-2005, 10:20 PM   #44
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Hyper,

Chargers charge cells, the difference is mainly in the information you get about the cells. How the cells perform will be mainly affected by how you treat them when they are not in the car or on the charger. You can use a really cheap charger and get pretty good results as long as you look after the cells. A good charger will actually tell you exactly how good the cells are. Mah in, peak charge volts etc all good info. High end chargers tell you this stuff, but you still have to wheel it no matter how good the cells are.

Chris
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Old 11-25-2005, 10:42 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper1
Mr Shookie,

I'm not trying to be negative or anything like that,but with over 14 years in this hobby,I've seen and heard a LOT of claims,and I've learned to wait and see, that's really all I'm saying and boy am I glad I applied that theory with the spectrum,look at all the problems it's had.
I totally agree with you, in fact, I'm a little like that myself ! .....but every now and then, you come across examples which makes you go "AH ! ....I definitely will be buying from this manufacturer's future products if they go thru all this trouble just to keep the customer's satisfaction". (Then again, there are some customer who never seems satisfied even after you're chopped off your head for them ! .....Mr Shookie will know him well ! )
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