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Old 11-25-2005, 07:57 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
I have a solution that can end this debate once and for all. Your newest US team driver for your motors is Josh Cyrul which also happens to be an SMC driver. Josh is one of the best US drivers and has allot of experience plus owns his own track. Why don't you send him some regular GP3700s and some of the new improved GP3700SP2 to test against our IB3800s. After he has tested them he can let everyone know his test report and show the lap times. I would like the test to be done with a brushless motor. This should remove the variables of a brushed motor like comm condition and motor heat.

If he says that the regular GP3700 are better than the IB3800s I will look like an idiot and you guys will look like heroes.
That isn't a fair test as the Brushless motor might favor one type of battery for the track it is on. You said yourself that when using IB cells the motors need to be tuned a lil differently. There for with brushless where you can not tune a motor the only way is to tune with batteries. On one track IBs might best but on a completely different track the GP cells might be untouchable.

Why are you so in Orions face for coming out with an improved version of the GP cell? That is the same thing you have been saying with EACH batch of IBs. Sounds a lil biased and to be honest is starting to get a lil old. I'm sure your drivers have been testing the new IB cells long before they went into production just as Orion has done with the GP cells.

Besides I remember a few years ago at Snowbirds you had "handmade" GP cells that smoked everything insite. I believe you said you had those, a quanity of about 200 (I would need to look back at the older threads to make sure) because you got a bad batch of something like that from GP.
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Old 11-25-2005, 08:18 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Anthony
That isn't a fair test as the Brushless motor might favor one type of battery for the track it is on. You said yourself that when using IB cells the motors need to be tuned a lil differently. There for with brushless where you can not tune a motor the only way is to tune with batteries. On one track IBs might best but on a completely different track the GP cells might be untouchable.

Why are you so in Orions face for coming out with an improved version of the GP cell? That is the same thing you have been saying with EACH batch of IBs. Sounds a lil biased and to be honest is starting to get a lil old. I'm sure your drivers have been testing the new IB cells long before they went into production just as Orion has done with the GP cells.

Besides I remember a few years ago at Snowbirds you had "handmade" GP cells that smoked everything insite. I believe you said you had those, a quanity of about 200 (I would need to look back at the older threads to make sure) because you got a bad batch of something like that from GP.

Exactly motors will get hotter when using IB cells so brushless will remove this variable plus comm wear and brush wear. If you can't tune the motor then you will see the difference between cells and not the motor. I'm happy to see GP release an improved cell. I'm just tired of hearing that the regular GP are better. If they were better why is almost everyone using IBs in Cleveland ?

As far as the Snowbirds a few years back we got a huge shipment of cells that were below the specs we expected. We mentioned to GP that we had a big race coming up and we woould be short on cells since what they sent us was below there rated specs. They told us that they would get us 200 cells for the race and we had them overnighted paying 200 or so for this. When they came in we noticed that they had higher voltage we asked GP if these were special and they told us that they were picked out of production cells. So the only thing we did was to pay for overnight shipping when most of our regular shipments come in via seafreight. The week after the Snowbirds we got 10 000 cells that had the same if not better specs then the 200 cells we got prior to the Snowbirds.
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Old 11-25-2005, 08:49 PM   #153
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Exactly motors will get hotter when using IB cells
Can you explain this?
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Old 11-25-2005, 08:56 PM   #154
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The reason why is IB cells are made differently and provide more power thus getting the motor hotter. A slightly different motor setup is needed.
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Old 11-25-2005, 08:59 PM   #155
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interesting.....
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Old 11-25-2005, 09:03 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
The reason why is IB cells are made differently and provide more power thus getting the motor hotter. A slightly different motor setup is needed.
Does it mean that we have to decrease the timing on the motor if using IB3800?
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Old 11-25-2005, 09:13 PM   #157
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Danny/SMC- You have a great reputation and you Products/Services are among the best in the industry. With that said coming on here and bashing on GP/Orion for inproving thier batteries when The IB's have been update/inproved over the last few months doesn't exactly look good. You sell IB3800's and they've been winning and getting great review so just let them speak for them selves at the track cause coming on here and dooing what you're dooing only sounds like sour grapes. Like I said of the top you've got a great reputation don't damage it when you don't need to.

Just my $.02

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Old 11-25-2005, 09:15 PM   #158
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Thanks for the kind words I will try to shut up a bit more but it's hard to do with all the info I have. Somethings I just can't mention or else some people would get in trouble.
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Old 11-25-2005, 09:18 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piyo Piyo
Does it mean that we have to decrease the timing on the motor if using IB3800?
I would reccomend you ask some of the motor tuners on this site.

I know one of our good oval mod racers told us that he drops the timing a bit and used the same rollout. The important thing is to monitor motor temp. If you go real fast for a few laps and then dropoff then you overheated your motor.
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Old 11-25-2005, 09:25 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
Thanks for the kind words I will try to shut up a bit more but it's hard to do with all the info I have. Somethings I just can't mention or else some people would get in trouble.
Danny go to bed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-25-2005, 10:32 PM   #161
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I think I have a little insight into why Danny is so "sensitive". It has been an uphill battle from day one to convince people that the IB is a viable and competitive cell. Every time we turn around we hear that they lose runtime after a few runs, can't be run multiple times per day, go flat at 3 minutes, etc,etc. All of this is simply not true. If it was, the cell would be dead and our reputation ruined. Instead, the consumers have finally embraced the cell and acknowledge the fact that it is an excellent performer. Since the cell is not legal for EFRA use, it is difficult to get feedback from those in Europe to confirm this. So, essentially, it is simply our word against the fantastic race results achieved by Orion. That is the definition of an uphill battle in my book. Fortunately, as Rick mentioned earlier, we are letting the product speak for itself on the track. And I must say that here in the US where stock racing and 19 turn dominate on a weekly basis, the IB cell is rapidly becoming the battery of choice. Despite Danny's perceived "sensitivity" we don't feel threatened nor do we feel we must degrade Orion, Peak, or GP to get ahead. We are more than content with what we sell and are thrilled that our customers love these batteries. IB is great to work with and they are committed to this market. All the hype in the world (from GP or IB) won't overcome the RC racers' ability to find the superior cell and extract the most from it.
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Old 11-26-2005, 02:07 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyP
Exactly motors will get hotter when using IB cells
Can you explain this?
Two issues:

1: The cell produces more voltage.

2: The cells weigh more, causing a higher load in the motor to accelerate and decellerate.

Even so, the car (at least mine anyway) is faster with the IB cells right now. So, if I am pushing more weight faster than with the GP, that means more total watts are passing through the motor. Even if the percentage of energy converted to heat stays the same, with more energy comes more heat. Thats why they get hotter.

As far as de-tuning, not too sure about that. Why de-tune the motor so overall your car now acts like it has 3300's in it? I haven't de-tuned my motor, but I did gear down one tooth.
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Old 11-26-2005, 02:23 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaintingRoly
Danny/SMC- You have a great reputation and you Products/Services are among the best in the industry. With that said coming on here and bashing on GP/Orion for inproving thier batteries when The IB's have been update/inproved over the last few months doesn't exactly look good. You sell IB3800's and they've been winning and getting great review so just let them speak for them selves at the track cause coming on here and dooing what you're dooing only sounds like sour grapes. Like I said of the top you've got a great reputation don't damage it when you don't need to.

Just my $.02

Roly
Maybe you should say the same thing to Oscar when he is putting the IBs down

Fact of the matter is what goes around comes around!!!! Good on you Danny give it right back to them
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Old 11-26-2005, 05:36 AM   #164
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PitCrew - the weight is almost a non issue, most of the newer cars these days all have to add about 40 to 60 grams of weight to make legal weight anyway. I know that an IB3800 pack weighs about 24 grams more than a GP3300 pack and about 6 grams more than a GP3700 pack. All I did is take the balance weight out of my FK05 and it weighs just as much as it did before. The motor see's no difference in weight, just voltage and IR
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Old 11-26-2005, 10:26 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgmeat
Danny go to bed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks I listened to your post and got a great nights sleep.
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