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Old 11-19-2005, 02:10 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Brian Anthony
So how good is an IB or a GP going to be with added length? If Li-polys are under 44mm and under 3800mAh are they going to be allowed? It almost sounds as if ROAR is going to switch to the IFMAR floating approval of as long as it is XXX number of days before a race.

I really don't see how LiPo would be legal they don't have the same voltage. You will get 7.4 volts out of lipo and only 7.2 out of nicads/nimh.
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Old 11-19-2005, 02:18 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
I really don't see why members who don't really understand the complete picture should vote on this issue.
Just using this thinking, why should 90% of the voting population be allowed to vote in Municipal election, let alone a Federal one? Most people don't understand most of what happens when it comes down to the issues.

All that being said, I really don't care about the new cells being passed. I am not a ROAR member, nor do I plan to be. I am pretty happy going to my club racing. I am not a good enough driver at this point that the batteries are going to help me. I make my runtime right now just using my 3300's and I am happy with that.
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Old 11-19-2005, 02:51 PM   #18
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8.3.1 Only sub-C size rechargeable batteries rated at 1.2 volts or less may be used for the motor
power in electric vehicle racing.
8.3.2 Dimensions:
8.3.2.1 Diameter: Maximum 23mm, Minimum 21.5mm
8.3.2.2 Length: Maximum 43mm, Minimum 41.5mm


8.3.2.2 is what was changed to read 44mm instead of 43mm...

PLEASE show me how a Lipo cell would EVER meet the qualifications....even after they can get 1mm longer.

Remember, this is PER cell.....you don't get to measure the overall pack...

And besides.....looks like there is a Lithium Battery to make it to the market, Lithium Magneisum.....we will see how they work...

So we now are on our THIRD type of Lithium battery.....awesome...

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Old 11-19-2005, 03:22 PM   #19
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do you have anylinks to info on the new lithium magnesium batteries EddieO? Just curious to read up on them.
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Old 11-19-2005, 03:53 PM   #20
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So, what I'm getting is that GP and IB have 43mm cells, and now can make them 44mm?
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Old 11-19-2005, 04:22 PM   #21
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Well this is great and all that they making these bigger batteries. We all like the voltage and the run time. But there might be a problem. How are going to get these batteries in out cars? Heck 3300 barely fit in off-road vehicles now they are going to make even bigger cells? I think that the car maufactors need to do catch up now before we make the batteries any longer.

Also why don't they pass a rule change to make racing longer seeing that the run time is getting to twice to three times longer than it was 10 years ago. But we still race the same amount of time.
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Old 11-19-2005, 04:36 PM   #22
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I dunno....but my IB3800 or GP3700 packs fit no problem in my Losi XXX BK2....

As for longer races....sure we could do them, but then we just create a run time war.....and worst yet, the tracks will start to make LESS money, as they won't be able to host as many racers.....race days are already long enough....they don't need to get any longer.


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Old 11-19-2005, 04:40 PM   #23
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That really don't make sense because nirto events run 7 or 10 minute quilfiers and 45 minute to 60 mains and 15 to 20 minute lower mains. So what be any different than nitro events?
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Old 11-19-2005, 04:47 PM   #24
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We need ROAR to be taken over by a benevolent dictator.
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Old 11-19-2005, 04:48 PM   #25
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They don't run triple A mains....and they don't usually have as many classes...most nitro events up our way run 5 minute qualifiers, just depends on attendance....

There is also a reason why those races sell out also.....cause time wise, they don't have any to spare....

And up here locally, I have heard horror stories of racing ending where they need to use everyone's real cars for lights....

Tell ya what, do the math on say 7 minute mains for a race like snowbirds or cleveland, then you tell me how many extra days it will take....

Sorry, won't work.....

And besides.....a lot of the top racers will tell you, 5 minutes is more than enough to decided who has won.....I get bored of the gas stuff, when you see the first place guy win by 6 laps.....

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Old 11-19-2005, 05:32 PM   #26
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If ROAR have actually done this, then I fear it is a big mistake.

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ROAR should contact EFRA and IFMAR and they should all make the decision together.
Danny, I know for a fact that EFRA and IFMAR representatives were trying to get a "world" cells standard/agreement on 43mm cells including with ROAR, but obviously their communications have fallen on deaf ears. I really would like to hear the justification from a ROAR official who actually does know what was behind this. Allowing this to go through has just once again highlighted the problem called ROAR - it doesn't matter how the decision was made, ultimately ROAR have allowed it to go through, against the rest of the world bodies who have been trying to reach a common 43mm standard for everyones benefit. This was, and is, too big an issue to put out to the "membership" especially in the manner in which it appears to have been conducted.

The rest of the racing world does not currently allow cells longer than 43mm +/- tolerance at sanctioned events, and this will also be the case for 2006. I very much doubt that GP and IB will make cells specifically for the US market alone - and I suspect they are probably going to be somewhat pissed at the timing and way this decision has come about. If GP and IB do make larger cells, they cannot be used elsewhere as the rules for 2006 have already been sealed, based on their (GP and IB) current cell dimensions - the GP3700 and the IB3800.

This will undoubtedly have other potential repercussions. Car design and balance issues, drivers in US hosted Worlds etc....

Sorry, but a BIG mistake on ROAR's part, you have just isolated the US from the rest of the world (so what's new eh!), they really do need to converse with the other world bodies and possibly reconsider this before any real damage is done.......
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Old 11-19-2005, 05:42 PM   #27
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Ifmar already allows the larger cells.

The reason that Roar put this on the ballot was to decide if we should make our rules the same as IFMAR which allows the 44mm batteries.
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Old 11-19-2005, 05:45 PM   #28
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Scott, I think you will find that IFMAR has actually adopted to change to 43mm.

The actual adoption, if I recall the information correctly, is:

43mm +/- a tolerance (which I don't recall exactly) for any new cells, but the inclusion of the current GP3700 and IB3800 as these cells are already in use and existing producers and users should not be penalised by such an adoption.
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Old 11-19-2005, 06:43 PM   #29
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I just read the IFMAR battery rule on their website and it say 44mm.
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Old 11-19-2005, 07:24 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
And besides.....looks like there is a Lithium Battery to make it to the market, Lithium Magneisum.....we will see how they work...

So we now are on our THIRD type of Lithium battery.....awesome...
Are you the biggest naysayer of new technology in R/C? It's ironic that you (and others like you) don't complain when these things are beneficial to your current business model.

The problem is that too many rules are in place to protect the economy of R/C for manufacturers and resellers, and not the racers. People are making a bunch of money on batteries because there's a tiny variation in quality from one cell to the next. You guys buy them up by the thousands, take the best of the bunch, and put people in a position where they need some of the best cells to remain competitive. That's great for battery matchers, but it's NOT great for the consumer. In fact, it sucks. So, ANY technology that stands a chance of removing this situation, while not good for guys that make money through this exploit, is good for the people that don't. That doesn't apply to this rule, really, but LiPo and related technology hold the promise of less variations between cells. It remains to be seen how that will play out in reality.

Wake up guys. Battery matchers aren't doing a great service to R/C. They're making a ton of money off of you by exploiting a "glitch" in battery manufacturing. And of course the battery companies don't care. If every single cell came out working as well as their best cells, do you think they would sell as many as they do? Yea, right.

Eddie, I apologize that I'm always calling you out on things. I don't mean to target you specifically, but you're one of the more vocal people, and our views are obviously very different. I don't think you a bad person, and I respect your skills and knowledge, and have enjoyed success with your products. But, I'm as passionate about this hobby as you guys are, and statements like the one you made grind against my bitter core. :-)
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