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Getting past the wall

Getting past the wall

Old 02-09-2016, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by niznai View Post
I don't think so. And, no, I am used to much larger, open (but still technical) tracks.What was the lap in mod? 10 seconds or thereabouts? Our track is about 18s. Some of the toughest races are in 21.5 blinky. Not sure why you're talking about hairpins. I commented that there was no room to try anything on that track, there was just enough room to squeeze a car in quite a few places, so everybody had to go in line.
Only Mod to manage 13.3 was Coehlo.

Hairpins force drivers to defend and increase the possibility of them making a mistake etc, or allowing you to try a different line as they are forced to defend.
There was plenty of room, but the track was so flowing that attacking was difficult.
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Old 02-09-2016, 09:51 PM
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Well, I followed the advice given and took what I thought was an extreme amount of dual rate out and went full compound on the fronts. DR went from 75 to 50 and added some negative Exp. First full pack was a little trial and error, but I finally found the fastest way around the track. I cleaned recharged and went a second a lap faster. Most of that speed was traction coming up, but it now felt more natural. 3rd pack and I was on the track keeping up and passing one of the faster racers and had a blast. By the 4th pack traction was up and fastest laps and averages on the same layout were back to the levels at the end of practice Sunday. I went out with 2 other racers, one a regular winner on and off-road. I left everything the same and for the first time I can remember, I ran within a tenth of a second of fastest lap and stayed with the other cars. I picked up that half second on average and dropped my fastest lap time the same amount. The time itself is unimportant as the key was to run with the lead pack. Done!

Thanks to all who gave an example of one simple thing to try.
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Old 02-10-2016, 09:17 PM
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Thsee are are great ideas. Never used any of them but will try on the next test and tune. The way I have gotten faster is by running two classes with similar chassis. I got into mod and just drove that for a couple months now I run both and I have gotten considerably faster in stock. I am also getting faster in mod due to learning the lines with the slower class and transferring it to the faster class. You don't necessarily need to run mod and stock, any two classes that are similar will work like spec gt and 17.5 which is what I used to do as well.
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Old 02-10-2016, 09:39 PM
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one thing you could try is what I did to get ready for my 1st year at Snowbirds. I normally dont run sedan 17.5 and was looking to gain every tenth I could find....my setup was basic and my driving was about the same. But In order to make a good showing I needed more. So what I did was after a lot of practicing I came to the track and watched EA and Skeen battle tick for tat to clear tenth after tenth....it was amazing what they was doing to gain those few tenth. So when I came I left my gear at home and brought pen and paper and took a ton of notes and studied them...everything from their trigger fingers to small turns of the wheel...50% watching them, 50% watching the car on the track. Collected all my note and applied as much as needed...the result?....best fastest cleanest driving Ive ever done...oh yeah 2012 Snowbird Champion in AM 17.5 and 2nd place VTA to boot...thanks to EA and Skeen and watching two Pros go at it
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Old 02-10-2016, 10:42 PM
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Good read as I am new to the rc onroad race format. For now I am racing a tamiya tt-02 in a tamiya based tub chassis the hobby shop has. From there I plan to build the tc4 I have as a usgt just to get my feet going. But my question is this I seem to be doing alot of spinning out in corners an such I used the traction compound on the hpi X pattern tires we can run those or the 24mm gravity. All that race this class all have same setup. So my question is on a carpet track coming In an out of the corners an losing control could it be not staying on a lil throttle or over steering.. Also what is your alls perspective on the two types of tires mentioned. As these are the only two the hobby shop allows.. Also o/p sorry to hijack your post but there was some pretty knowledgeable post this is why I asked. Thanks in advance
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Old 02-11-2016, 08:01 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by scirocco14 View Post


There is an optimal slip angle for maximum lateral force, and going past that will reduce lateral force. Those of you guys who have 45 degrees of steering angle might be leaving a lot of front grip on the table.

I normally limit my front steering to 12-13 degrees each way. Guys who have driven my cars have a hard time at first because it doesn't have a lot of steering angle and they have to plan their lines better.

Mark
All true, but as manufactures don't disclose/have information on the slip angle of their tyres, we have to try to guess and test with different ackerman and toe settings.
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Old 02-11-2016, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
All true, but as manufactures don't disclose/have information on the slip angle of their tyres, we have to try to guess and test with different ackerman and toe settings.
The other thing I always wondered about: in full scale racing, we physically cannot turn the steering wheel very fast, giving the tires time to build up slip angles as we enter the corners. In RC, the servos are lightning fast. And if you go from zero degrees steering angle to 30 degrees of steering angle in .06 sec or whatever, is it possible to go 'over the top' of the curve so fast that you miss the maximum lateral cornering force?

I've experimented in practice with slowing down the steering speed on my radio and my lap times improved...up to a point. Then they started to slow down again. Very interesting....

Mark
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Old 02-11-2016, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by bryangrizzlyohi View Post
Good read as I am new to the rc onroad race format. For now I am racing a tamiya tt-02 in a tamiya based tub chassis the hobby shop has. From there I plan to build the tc4 I have as a usgt just to get my feet going. But my question is this I seem to be doing alot of spinning out in corners an such I used the traction compound on the hpi X pattern tires we can run those or the 24mm gravity. All that race this class all have same setup. So my question is on a carpet track coming In an out of the corners an losing control could it be not staying on a lil throttle or over steering.. Also what is your alls perspective on the two types of tires mentioned. As these are the only two the hobby shop allows.. Also o/p sorry to hijack your post but there was some pretty knowledgeable post this is why I asked. Thanks in advance
Both of those tires have decent grip, so I'd check to see if maybe you don't have enough rear droop or too stiff of a rear spring first.
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Old 02-11-2016, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by liljohn1064 View Post
Both of those tires have decent grip, so I'd check to see if maybe you don't have enough rear droop or too stiff of a rear spring first.
Ok ill do the checking on rear spring do to not being able to adjust rear droop on the tt cars..
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Old 02-11-2016, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by bryangrizzlyohi View Post
Ok ill do the checking on rear spring do to not being able to adjust rear droop on the tt cars..
Droop is controlled by the over all length of the shock in cars with no droop screws. Use internal spacers on the shaft under the piston to shorten, also very important that the shock pairs are the same length.
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Old 02-11-2016, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bryangrizzlyohi View Post
Good read as I am new to the rc onroad race format. For now I am racing a tamiya tt-02 in a tamiya based tub chassis the hobby shop has. From there I plan to build the tc4 I have as a usgt just to get my feet going. But my question is this I seem to be doing alot of spinning out in corners an such I used the traction compound on the hpi X pattern tires we can run those or the 24mm gravity. All that race this class all have same setup. So my question is on a carpet track coming In an out of the corners an losing control could it be not staying on a lil throttle or over steering.. Also what is your alls perspective on the two types of tires mentioned. As these are the only two the hobby shop allows.. Also o/p sorry to hijack your post but there was some pretty knowledgeable post this is why I asked. Thanks in advance
One other thing to consider is torque steer in your TT02. I currently run an almost bone stock TT01 with almost no adjustability and other than the torque steer in our USGT type class, it's pretty competitive. I just can't punch the throttle out of the apex but have to nicely full throttle it or my car will over steer like crazy. Actually really good class for me to work on throttle and brake control. Or other option is to get an Awesomatix, which has no torque steer.

Ivan
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Old 02-11-2016, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by SLOWINSLOWOUT View Post
Droop is controlled by the over all length of the shock in cars with no droop screws. Use internal spacers on the shaft under the piston to shorten, also very important that the shock pairs are the same length.
currently I am using the friction shocks I used some vaterra oil filled an this is what I noticed I swapped them for the stock friction shocks.. should I place the vaterra ones back on
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Old 02-11-2016, 02:05 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by BoneCrusher View Post
One other thing to consider is torque steer in your TT02. I currently run an almost bone stock TT01 with almost no adjustability and other than the torque steer in our USGT type class, it's pretty competitive. I just can't punch the throttle out of the apex but have to nicely full throttle it or my car will over steer like crazy. Actually really good class for me to work on throttle and brake control. Or other option is to get an Awesomatix, which has no torque steer.

Ivan
Your car does not oversteer because of torque steer. It oversteers because of, oh well, oversteer. You can tune it to mitigate, in principle you need more rear weight transfer on power to begin with.
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Old 02-11-2016, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by niznai View Post
Your car does not oversteer because of torque steer. It oversteers because of, oh well, oversteer. You can tune it to mitigate, in principle you need more rear weight transfer on power to begin with.
Let me rephrase that. When I'm at a stand still and punch the throttle, the car has a tendency to steer itself to one side (right I think). I believe this is torque steer. Please correct me if I' wrong.

So when I get out of a turn and punch the throttle, if I'm going right, my car will oversteer more so than on the left. I agree there needs more weight transfer but droop is near impossible to set on the TT01.

Smooth throttle control is really my point.

Ivan
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Old 02-11-2016, 03:17 PM
  #45  
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Given the car is a TT01 I think it can be torque steer and a million other things. I have seen people race TT01 successfully on carpet in 21.5 with no handling issues, so it can be addressed, but it's a pain in the butt.
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