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Old 11-19-2005, 08:47 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Desolas
Otherwise I think the best alternative is to form real spec classes using decent stock motors. Using P2K's, or P2K2's with specific springs and brushes with no modification or altering, with bearings not brushes. Then people who are either too new to understand motor tuning, or don't want to deal with it will have a good clean solid fun class that is still fast and competetive.
Funny thing is, you say push the novice to use these motors, in onroad yes it may be slower on some tracks, but in offroad these motors can still be used to win and in many cases are faster than the latest greatest high RPM stocker. The true difference between a P2K, P2K2, GM3, or Monster is the top RPM and how ast it goes from nothing to full RPM. Yes the Monster is the king of top RPM(and some say the power too). But in reality, anything that creates more RPM takes longer to get there because the power is moved closer to the higher RPM range. From a stand still, a P2K will out accelerate a Monster in the first 10 feet. But if they are both already rolling and punch it, the monster will have the advantage because the power curve is still on the up slope instead of leveling off like the P2K. I prefer a P2K and a P2K2 in all applications in offroad because there is way more stoping and starting going on there where as in onroad you are always rolling at a decent momentum so the power peak is not ever reached when exiting a corner, and this makes them way faster in onroad.

I wish stock motors were fullstacks with stand up brushes and bearings, this would make finding the right gearing less critical for new people to this hobby(how many newbies blow motors because they do not know what proper gearing is?). TO slow dow stock at major events, I would suggest useing a tire that is harder than what the prefered tire is(example: if the best tire for the track is a sorex 28, use sorex 36's [or a harder tire than this] as the hand out tire). This makes set-up more important to get the most out of yoru tires.

Back to the motor stuff, most people want speed, flat out, how fast can I get my rc going. This simple mind set will continue to make the manufacturers improve and increase the RPM and power inside the stock motor with efficiency thrown out the door(it is stock, they are not ment to be run 50+ times without being maintained, even though I regularly got 40+ out of my P2K motors when I ran stock years ago).
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Old 11-19-2005, 07:21 PM   #92
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Funny thing is, you say push the novice to use these motors, in onroad yes it may be slower on some tracks, but in offroad these motors can still be used to win and in many cases are faster than the latest greatest high RPM stocker.
There are people in my local open stock club that use the P2K with the right brush and spring tuning and are beating people running Monsters. The can and motor IMO is pretty much pointless, I was just throwing out a popular motor that is cheap basically but doesn't suck like a MVP. What is more important is there be a class that has a set brush and spring with no tweaks, you can even have it be with Monsters but they aren't as forgiving with gearing as a motor with more torque like the P2K/P2K2 (like what you mentioned.)

My idea of a Stock Spec class is not a novice class but people who know how to drive, can even run open stock if they want to, but do not have the skill or desire to tune a motor (or maintain one.) Novice should be novice, pretty much open stock motor and new people who can't drive.

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I wish stock motors were fullstacks with stand up brushes and bearings, this would make finding the right gearing less critical for new people to this hobby(how many newbies blow motors because they do not know what proper gearing is?)
I agree totally. That was why I suggested something like the P2K for a spec class, it's much more forgiving on gearing mistakes than something like a Monster.

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Back to the motor stuff, most people want speed, flat out, how fast can I get my rc going. This simple mind set will continue to make the manufacturers improve and increase the RPM and power inside the stock motor with efficiency thrown out the door(it is stock, they are not ment to be run 50+ times without being maintained, even though I regularly got 40+ out of my P2K motors when I ran stock years ago).
That does seem to be true. Everyone wants to go faster (I know I do) but then how come there seems to be such a fallout when it comes to the 19T class? Easiest way to go fast without running mod, and it seems like nobody runs it. It's kind of frustrating, apparently people really enjoy tweaking their stock motors.
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Old 11-19-2005, 08:53 PM   #93
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People tweak the 19T motors too?? You're fooling yourself if you think there is no motor tweaking or tuning involved with 19T
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Old 11-19-2005, 09:04 PM   #94
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I think the fall out is the fact that so many drivers do not want to race against the best fatory supported drivers(ussually the top mod driver) who also run 19 turn to get more track time at an already time limited event. The faster stock guys do not feel they can compete against those guys, so they tried 19T and once the top mod guys came down, they ran back to stock only. To me 19T was only created by people who felt they could never win against the mod guys and wanted a class other than stock to run in to give them a chance to win. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION.
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Old 11-20-2005, 12:46 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
alright
polish bushings/armature shaft`s

pitcrew
if you still disagree , then we agree to disagre (but i`m right )

but if have your point of view we can discuss it , then we agree i am right

just go to the website`s & see there point of tuning guide they have for getting stocks to go fast

Well then feel free to continue to polish your bushings for the 5% increase you might get for the few runs the motor lasts before the bushings start to go to heck.

There is nothing wrong with polishing the SHAFTS, as long as they are VERY clean before re-assembly.

In fact, lightly polishing the shafts with something like 1000 grit paper in an up and down motion while spinning it in a dremel will result in a cross-hatch cut pattern on the shaft which will help retain and distribute the oil between the bushing and the shaft, so that is an ok thing to do, as long as you don't take off more than about .0005"
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Old 11-20-2005, 01:11 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by PitCrew
Well then feel free to continue to polish your bushings for the 5% increase you might get for the few runs the motor lasts before the bushings start to go to heck.

There is nothing wrong with polishing the SHAFTS, as long as they are VERY clean before re-assembly.

In fact, lightly polishing the shafts with something like 1000 grit paper in an up and down motion while spinning it in a dremel will result in a cross-hatch cut pattern on the shaft which will help retain and distribute the oil between the bushing and the shaft, so that is an ok thing to do, as long as you don't take off more than about .0005"

also i use the speed lube from zubaks between races

me perssonally don`t polish (to lazy) , but know off etc etc .
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Old 11-20-2005, 11:42 AM   #97
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People tweak the 19T motors too?? You're fooling yourself if you think there is no motor tweaking or tuning involved with 19T
*sigh* NO. That wasn't at all my point. It was said people want to go faster and faster, well, since stock rules limit just how fast people go then what I meant is why aren't more people then moving up to 19T. All motors are tweaked. ALL.

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I think the fall out is the fact that so many drivers do not want to race against the best fatory supported drivers(ussually the top mod driver) who also run 19 turn to get more track time at an already time limited event. The faster stock guys do not feel they can compete against those guys, so they tried 19T and once the top mod guys came down, they ran back to stock only. To me 19T was only created by people who felt they could never win against the mod guys and wanted a class other than stock to run in to give them a chance to win. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION.
That is an interesting thought, and I'm sure its true on a national event level .. but what about on the club level? Most club drivers will never have to deal with racing factory drivers. Those that do, well they will fill up the B-Main nicely. I think a lot of people need to get over the hurdle that your not always going to win the A-Main. Perhapes that is more the problem than anything, people are losing the ability to just have fun. There is nothing wrong with losing as long as your not a sore loser.

19T seems like the perfect solution for people who want to bump up and be faster than stock. The motors have more torque, and often you don't have to work them nearly as much to get all the power out of them. You can use the same tricks you learned in stock to get more motor, and you don't have to know how to handle a mod car or use foam tires (another learning curve.) That is of course the track runs 19T Rubber, which many do.
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