Time to change stock motor rules
11-16-2005, 04:03 PM
#61
Originally Posted by Soviet
I don't appreciate being patronized as if I was 5 years old and retarded.
I never said that ( I ) polished bushings, however some do and they get less bushing drag, etc. I was just throwing out stuff that people invariably do to juice their motors.
So kindly do me a favor and don't speak to me in such a condescending manner again.
I never said that ( I ) polished bushings, however some do and they get less bushing drag, etc. I was just throwing out stuff that people invariably do to juice their motors.
So kindly do me a favor and don't speak to me in such a condescending manner again.
No really;
Sorry if you felt I patronized you as a 5 year old retard.
In my comment about polishing bushings, I should go and replace "you" with "they" or "someguys", as to not come across as directed at any one person. Its just I have heard many people say to do this terrible thing to their bushings, and i just couldn't take it any more.
11-16-2005, 04:09 PM
#62
Some people have the mentality that they don't want to be in the "slow" class.
If we dumb stock down to a "slower" level, then many of the guys that are being complained about now in stock will go and race in your 19t class.
Maybe this needs to be dealt with in other ways, like posting rules and having drivers meetings before the racing begins. Let people know its not going to be acceptable to cheat. Also, make the point that its also not going to be acceptable to have some people blowing the whistle all the time either.
A poor driver with a fast motor is not going to be faster than a good driver with a slow motor.
If we dumb stock down to a "slower" level, then many of the guys that are being complained about now in stock will go and race in your 19t class.
Maybe this needs to be dealt with in other ways, like posting rules and having drivers meetings before the racing begins. Let people know its not going to be acceptable to cheat. Also, make the point that its also not going to be acceptable to have some people blowing the whistle all the time either.
A poor driver with a fast motor is not going to be faster than a good driver with a slow motor.
11-16-2005, 04:12 PM
#63
Wow, lots of you are itching to block this hobby from the public. "Get rid of stock", "Make 19T the new stock".......PLEASE. You are the same peple that bitch about prices, too, I bet. Do you know that more sales lowers prices? Hurries the speed of tech advances? You block new people, and evolution of this hobby stagnates. 
11-16-2005, 04:13 PM
#64
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
Wish having a tech would solve the problems...
However, Its not that easy...
The methods use today to tune are difficult to spot , not so easy to tech as you may think.....
Things are being done that even a trained & experience tech will miss...
However, Its not that easy...
The methods use today to tune are difficult to spot , not so easy to tech as you may think.....
Things are being done that even a trained & experience tech will miss...
11-16-2005, 04:19 PM
#65
Tech Regular
iTrader: (3)
Originally Posted by Kevin CBR
Just cause someone motors you on a straight does not mean he's cheating. Think of the other possible reasons. Better batteries, car rolls more freely, better gearing choice, better speed control, same speed control but just programmed better, or god forbid, they just had a much higher corner speed and carried that on to the straight better than you did.
Don't get caught up in the "he must be cheating because he's faster than me syndrome". Equipment, experience, and car set-up have a lot to do with it.
Don't get caught up in the "he must be cheating because he's faster than me syndrome". Equipment, experience, and car set-up have a lot to do with it.
I also like the idea of full stack arms and standup brushes. Keep the big windows in the cans for tech. And actually have a tech.....
Sidebar, old tech vs. new tech stock motors.....At last weekend's race, I ran a nearly new Race Prep stock motor from the early 90's just to see what it would do. It had a fresh cut comm and brushes. Put it on the track, and it was slow, and got hot quickly.....I thought there was something wrong with my car.....Put a well used (but fresh cut and brushes) Monster in, and the punch and speed came back. Was very surprising how big a difference there was.
11-16-2005, 04:35 PM
#66
Tech Fanatic
Set up is critical! cornerspeed is everything.If we could do split times it would tell the story! As for a newbie tell him him to watch nascar qualifying and he will see how corner speed carries onto the straights.
11-16-2005, 04:57 PM
#68
You can also call the person out, only draw back is if they were not cheating, you have egg on your face instead of that person being busted and labled as a cheater. I know this has worked at the local tracks I run at, people do not want to get busted cheating because every tags them as a cheater. Very few people can actually take the fact of being busted out on cheating, those are the ones with no morals and do not really care about competition.
11-16-2005, 05:09 PM
#69
Like they do at some of the larger races...if you're going to make an accusation, it needs to be submitted with a sum of $$$.....if you are correct then the person will be disqualified and you get your $$$ back...
If you make a false accusation....the person you accused gets your $$$ and you get egg on your face...
might help keep excessive whistleblowing under control...
If you make a false accusation....the person you accused gets your $$$ and you get egg on your face...
might help keep excessive whistleblowing under control...
11-16-2005, 05:53 PM
#70
Tech Adept
There is NO WHERE NEAR as much cheating going as there is complaining about it. I've been in this hobby for over 15 years now, and in all those years, I've only heard of a couple of cases where people have actually been caught cheating. I've seen many people thoroughly teched, and all were found to be completely legal.
The real point here is that in the old days, we couldn't wait to get out of stock because it was so slow. Now, we are running what are effectively bushing mod motors. Stock is WAY too fast for beginners, and it is fast enough that people will stay in the class forever.
We DON'T have a class for the novice racers, we have a separate stock class for these inexperienced racers. This could just as easily be accomplished by putting them all in a lower qualifier. This really just keeps them out of the regular stock heats so the more experienced drivers don't have to share the track with them.
I am all for creating a new specification for stock motors. Whether that is a 35 turn, full stack and stand-up brushes or some other variation, it doesn't matter, as long as it is slower. A slower car is more forgiving to a bad setup. This will allow the newer drivers to learn how to get their car working before bolting in a stupid fast motor.
As it is now, the Stock and 19 turn motors are fairly similar in speed and power. Most of the faster and experienced drivers will fit this class. This will leave the new stock class for the beginners.
As with any form of racing, someone will stay in a class and become the one to beat. It's been that way since the beginning, that won't change no matter what is done with the motors. I just think it is time we make the entry level class of racing something that an entry level driver can handle.
The real point here is that in the old days, we couldn't wait to get out of stock because it was so slow. Now, we are running what are effectively bushing mod motors. Stock is WAY too fast for beginners, and it is fast enough that people will stay in the class forever.
We DON'T have a class for the novice racers, we have a separate stock class for these inexperienced racers. This could just as easily be accomplished by putting them all in a lower qualifier. This really just keeps them out of the regular stock heats so the more experienced drivers don't have to share the track with them.
I am all for creating a new specification for stock motors. Whether that is a 35 turn, full stack and stand-up brushes or some other variation, it doesn't matter, as long as it is slower. A slower car is more forgiving to a bad setup. This will allow the newer drivers to learn how to get their car working before bolting in a stupid fast motor.
As it is now, the Stock and 19 turn motors are fairly similar in speed and power. Most of the faster and experienced drivers will fit this class. This will leave the new stock class for the beginners.
As with any form of racing, someone will stay in a class and become the one to beat. It's been that way since the beginning, that won't change no matter what is done with the motors. I just think it is time we make the entry level class of racing something that an entry level driver can handle.
11-16-2005, 05:53 PM
#71
Is anyone as fed up as I am that there are so many cheaters in stock. I think that it is time to change stock motors to allow adj. timing, bearings and hand wound arms so that the cheaters lose most of the easy cheats to use against those of us who play by the rules.
Its bad enough that some racers adj the timing on the stock motor for more power but we have some motor companies twisting the com to advance the timing that you can buy at the LHS.
I think that there are 2 big reasons that many new RC racers leave RC racing cheating and hacking. Stock class cheating can be greatly minimized by changing a few rules. Getting rid of hacking will take some track operators to get their heads out. If the track operators realized that they are losing alot of racers and customers in their shops because they allow the track bullies to tear up others racers cars for fun , they would address hacking immediately.
Its bad enough that some racers adj the timing on the stock motor for more power but we have some motor companies twisting the com to advance the timing that you can buy at the LHS.
I think that there are 2 big reasons that many new RC racers leave RC racing cheating and hacking. Stock class cheating can be greatly minimized by changing a few rules. Getting rid of hacking will take some track operators to get their heads out. If the track operators realized that they are losing alot of racers and customers in their shops because they allow the track bullies to tear up others racers cars for fun , they would address hacking immediately.
There is already a class where you can run virtually ANY ARM and/or ANY TIMING... it's called MODIFIED, strangely enough...it seems to be a DYING CLASS Nationwide~
11-16-2005, 05:59 PM
#72
Maybe where you live....seems to be going ok here...
And I know I sell a bunch of modifieds every week all around the world....
Later EddieO
And I know I sell a bunch of modifieds every week all around the world....
Later EddieO
11-16-2005, 06:00 PM
#73
..just to add something more...
WHO determines WHAT is LEGAL and WHAT is CHEATING at YOUR track?
Is it a ROAR based club? If not, lets SEE your clubs RULES as to what dictates a STOCK motor.
We have an issue at a local track, the NOVICE class is ALL running 19t motors. There is a STOCK Class and a 19t class, but since nearly all the NOVICE drivers are running TC3 rtr cars..which all came with 19t motors..they THINK that a 19t motor IS STOCK~
WHO determines WHAT is LEGAL and WHAT is CHEATING at YOUR track?
Is it a ROAR based club? If not, lets SEE your clubs RULES as to what dictates a STOCK motor.
We have an issue at a local track, the NOVICE class is ALL running 19t motors. There is a STOCK Class and a 19t class, but since nearly all the NOVICE drivers are running TC3 rtr cars..which all came with 19t motors..they THINK that a 19t motor IS STOCK~
11-16-2005, 06:05 PM
#74
Tech Fanatic
4 cell stock is no where near FAST,if a newbie can't handle these kinda speeds in a reasonable amount of time,IE a season, then he may want to rethink his choice of hobbies.
11-16-2005, 09:57 PM
#75
Tech Adept
The biggest problem is that the track owner/operator never really check motors. There is always somone going ballistic down the straight with stock or 19T but this doesn't mean they are cheating.
It should be the track owner's responsibility to check motors, our local track's 19T class is pretty popular right now but they have a "whatever 19T rule". You can put in any 19T like adjustable timing, hand wound, outlaw. Now, nobody ever check motors and people start putting in mild modified arms.
I've been to many big races and I honestly can't remember anyone really checking motors. People from the tech table literally LOOK at the motor but they never really check the motor. Cheaters cheat because they know they can get away with it.
It should be the track owner's responsibility to check motors, our local track's 19T class is pretty popular right now but they have a "whatever 19T rule". You can put in any 19T like adjustable timing, hand wound, outlaw. Now, nobody ever check motors and people start putting in mild modified arms.
I've been to many big races and I honestly can't remember anyone really checking motors. People from the tech table literally LOOK at the motor but they never really check the motor. Cheaters cheat because they know they can get away with it.
Last edited by RickyIS300; 11-16-2005 at 11:00 PM.