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Old 11-16-2005, 10:24 AM   #31
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If the guy/guys whom you suspect of cheating are approachable-then give them your best motor and have them cut it on there lathe and then you rebuild it.

I found a HUGE drop in performnace of my motors when my lathe had gone out of whack and a big improvement when it got fixed (by Chris Doseck).

Also-some motors just flat out rip and when the owners of such motors put them in-they are just plain ballistic. Maybe some day you'll get lucky and get a Freak motor like that. I see it all the time. I had a MOnster from the 04 Nats that was sick and remianed sick till the last cut on the comm. Put a new arm in the can and guess what-poop.

The other day I figured my buddy was pulling me 5' down the backstright every lap with his freak motor. IN an 8-minute race thats 41 laps x 5' thats 205' further down the track he is after 8-minutes. I am sure to many that would look like cheating!!!!!! But he doesnt.
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Old 11-16-2005, 10:29 AM   #32
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Ray,

Could you elaborate on your lathe problems,I think I'm having issues with mine as well.
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Old 11-16-2005, 10:39 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper1
Ray,

Could you elaborate on your lathe problems,I think I'm having issues with mine as well.
I dont know the lingo, but my trusted Twister lathe has set screws on it to press the shims in the V-slot. They had come loose and the tool head could move around. SOmetimes a motor would come out fast-and on another cut it was slow. Luckily Doseck was at the Halloween Classic and had aligned my lathe 2-years ago. But in thatime with transporting my lathe to and from the track weekely-it had gotten all out of whack. I now barely move it around
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Old 11-16-2005, 10:39 AM   #34
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A brushless motor limited by RPM or amp or whatever through the ESC will never work correctly......

If we ever end up with a brushless stock motor....it will need to be that, a determined wind that is considered stock, regardless of the speed control settings...

Attempting to do it in the speed control will breed nothing but massive cheating, that will be virtually undetectable......its very very basic software that a 19 year old kid in his basement can hack.....these geeks hack stuff thats designed NOT to be hackable....and they still break it every time....a speed control will be a cake walk for them after only a couple of mountain dews and maybe 1 viewing of hackers the movie....

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Old 11-16-2005, 10:51 AM   #35
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IF there is cheating at a local club there is a pretty easy solution. Create a motor claiming rule. For a set price (usually the cost of a new motor plus a few dollars) any racer can claim (puchase) another racers motor. If a racers is way too fast and cheating he will soon get tired of building motors for other people. If he is not cheating it will be easy for him to build another fast motor.
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Old 11-16-2005, 10:54 AM   #36
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I'm all for rule updates as long as they allow technology tht makes stock motors more efficient. It kinda sucks when the motor comes off so hot after the 5 mins. When i occasionally run 19t, I find that they run cooler. It just makes more sense. it just seems so extreme that we have to run fans to keep our cans cooler in stock. As for the "freak" motor, I can attest to that. I once bought a kyosho mustang mimi-z and used some aaa's from fry's and it was so much faster than the other out of box racers. It was pretty funny--Al
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Old 11-16-2005, 11:00 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
A brushless motor limited by RPM or amp or whatever through the ESC will never work correctly......

If we ever end up with a brushless stock motor....it will need to be that, a determined wind that is considered stock, regardless of the speed control settings...

Attempting to do it in the speed control will breed nothing but massive cheating, that will be virtually undetectable......its very very basic software that a 19 year old kid in his basement can hack.....these geeks hack stuff thats designed NOT to be hackable....and they still break it every time....a speed control will be a cake walk for them after only a couple of mountain dews and maybe 1 viewing of hackers the movie....

Later EddieO
If this was true , how bout hacking my Q2 or Novak so it will be faster....


Simply not case, you need to hack the motor to improve the performance not the ESC !


Hacking todays stock motors does not even require Mountain Dew....
or even a computer...
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Old 11-16-2005, 11:07 AM   #38
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Cherry, read the whole post three times....then you will get it.

But I will explain right now for you...

As your brushless sits, doing something to the speedo will do little if ANYTHING to make it faster....

However, try to tell everyone to push a button, that will magically turn their 10 turn brushless modified motor into a stock motor, by limiting RPM to 24k or whatever.......and guess what? People WILL hack it....and be rarely caught if ever....

That being said, if brushless wants to enter the stock game, they need to come up with a 27t wound motor.....not try to change a 10t into with a push of button...

Understand now? Cause even the brushless Guru guys from the companies know this to be the case.....

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Old 11-16-2005, 11:10 AM   #39
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I dont think its motor companies people are referring too. Its the people that need or want that extra edge and have no regards or respect for rules.

I know Br00d, Axiom, Fantom, EA, Putnam are well known and are trustworthy as Motor Tuners/Builders and know how to tune and make a motor fast and would have no reason to do this. The Comm Locks we now have provide little play and would be very noticeable to "most" if this was done.

Some people can simply just not tune a motor so they find ways around it or they are the type that like to push the rules, either way these bad apples (as Eddie put it) are the reason we have Tech and rules.
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Old 11-16-2005, 11:13 AM   #40
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Being a total novice at driving RC cars on a track, I can tell from very recent experience that there is much to be said for current stock motors being hard to handle. I still suffer from the overwhelming desire to trigger-mash, to let 'r rip, which invariably results in missing turn in points at the end of the straight or losing it in the turns. I'm running my TA05, some crap unmatched 3300s, a VFS-1 with a 27T setup, and a Trinity Green Machine: no lathing, no cutting, no replaced brushes, all just straight out of the box.

I guess that, as with any kind of racing, there's more status and prestige involved in moving up to a 'higher' class. It's definitely the case in the various SCCA forms of racing I've been involved in; Formula Atlantic is way cooler/faster/sexy than Formula Vee or Formula Ford. Fact is, however, that most drivers never get to the limits of their little Vee before they hit the limits of their own skills. Start slow and learn to drive before moving up to more power is the name of the game.
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Old 11-16-2005, 11:27 AM   #41
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In my opinion, limit 27t stock racing to beginners / novices only...everyone else races 19t...period the end...

Its easy to determine who the novices are...

All ROAR members should register as Expert / Intermediate / Novice...this stature would remain in place each year and a drivers selection is binding. There ROAR cards would identify this

At a large high profile race, the winner in 27t must adjust his standings and move to Intermediate status.

All intermediate & experts drivers can switch between 19t and modified/brushless.

For club racing the same would apply, if you start the season as a novice, you must race as a novice for the entire season. If you win 3-consectutive times, you move up to 19t or intermediate status.
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Old 11-16-2005, 11:36 AM   #42
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Novices already have a class its called Novice. Stock is a fun competitive class for even the fastest drivers.

This thread is about cheating in the Stock class. There is a thread about who should race in what class etc. up the hall.
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Old 11-16-2005, 11:41 AM   #43
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I want to start off by saying that I was not talking about the reputable motor builders, Brood, Axiom(just bought 2 of these when I was in NW), Putnam, Kisbey, etc..

What I am referring is a newer local motor builder who now has his cheater motors being sold at LHS. And some racers who have told me they run cheater motors but it's "okay" because everybody knows what they run.

If you take two good racers that are close in skills, a twisted comm in a stock motors will give the cheater 1 or 2 more laps and this activity ruins the whole race and gets racers to quit racing. So some clubs(unfortunately some around me) get full of the regular cheaters and the people who follow the rules get sick of RC racing and want to quit.
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Old 11-16-2005, 11:44 AM   #44
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Sorry maybe I misread. Glad to hear your Support for the NW - Thanks!!
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Old 11-16-2005, 11:57 AM   #45
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Our club starts the novice class drivers with silver cans. We run stock sportsmen and stock expert. Also have a 19t class. This upcoming season we will most likely go with
Novice - silver can
Sportsmen - 27t
Expert - 19t
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