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How your car motor will be competitive if all racers run same FDR?

How your car motor will be competitive if all racers run same FDR?

Old 12-06-2015, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by mac853 View Post
Dear anyone:
In fact i will run soon a 21.5 blinky race which is restricted minimum fdr until 4.0, but no limit on rotors then on small size carpet track.

Could anybody tell me what should and play on motor in order to be competitive?

Best regards
Weird to limit FDR but not control other things like all the other varibles mentioned above.
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Old 12-06-2015, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by TOM MAR View Post
We already have that. USVTA
And it clearly works. So popular it's become the slash class for onroad.
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Old 12-06-2015, 09:28 AM
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The German indoor ETS in Andernach does get 200 stock drivers beside 100 F1 and 100 modified. So yes, this formula works.
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Old 12-06-2015, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by niznai View Post
All of them however rely on no diff action.
It's something I was wondering about, but as Roelof points out, it's not significant. I've measured the FDR on my F1 on the rear axle, which is likely to diff more than what most people would ever run in the front of their TC. The measured FDR was spot on (to displayed significant figures) compared to the calculated value (96 spur, 38 pinion - this was for a *big* track ). Now, even if there was a zero-friction diff, I've got two backup approaches that would work for that too.

Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
The way of how the ETS is doing is adapted by many other organisations already. Non timeable stock motor/ESC combo with a limit on the FDR will keep the currents down and so the equipment alive and durable. That will outrule the need of using new motors every time and the use of high costing low resistance batteries.

The control motor/limited FDR approach addresses a range of issues with "stock" racing, so I think there's merit in pursuing it. Some local testing suggests batteries become *less* important, for example.

Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
My system as mentioned also keeps control on the RPM so any kind of cheating on the motor will directly be shown because the used ETS Muchmore sets are all very close the same.
I'll have a go at adding RPM info
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Old 12-07-2015, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by PDR View Post
I'll have a go at adding RPM info
Had a few minutes while the boss watched TV, so although it's not completely tested, I added a new mode that shows FDR and RPM.
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Old 12-07-2015, 03:43 PM
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Well guys, limiting fdr will not make all the cars equal at all... You will need to equalize every single car's acceleration time from zero to a set top speed, and find a way to make these settings tamperproof, both on the car and on the radio...Cars will also need to be tested before every run... Until then, there will always be too many variables for a true spec class...
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Old 12-07-2015, 09:41 PM
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To answer your last question...

With an FDR limit, use the highest RPM rotor you can find. That would be 12.3 (or lower). The 14mm rotors are for torque. You use these in a stock class (no boost) on a large track to keep the straight speeds high and have good rip out of the infield corners.
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Old 12-08-2015, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by xevias View Post
To answer your last question...

With an FDR limit, use the highest RPM rotor you can find. That would be 12.3 (or lower). The 14mm rotors are for torque. You use these in a stock class (no boost) on a large track to keep the straight speeds high and have good rip out of the infield corners.
Honestly not quite big.
I have never been but at least is quite smaller than Yatabe.
What do you think if i bring a short stack d4 motor with 12.5mm 5(strong magnet) rotor.
But i think, since is high grip surface, can try 13.5 rotor with high positive timing.
Isn't it?

Best regards
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Old 12-08-2015, 06:35 AM
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Sorry but we're racing toy car cars. This whole deal here is pointless for reasons everyone has mentioned. People who race will look for every possible way to get an advantage. No one wants to be limited on gearing and timing. If your too slow. Figure out how to go faster. But most of the people complaining that others are faster cheating. Reality is those people haven't learned how to drive yet. Practice being consistent. Then push to go faster.
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Old 12-08-2015, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Juan Aveytia View Post
Sorry but we're racing toy car cars. This whole deal here is pointless for reasons everyone has mentioned. People who race will look for every possible way to get an advantage. No one wants to be limited on gearing and timing. If your too slow. Figure out how to go faster. But most of the people complaining that others are faster cheating. Reality is those people haven't learned how to drive yet. Practice being consistent. Then push to go faster.
So scrap all classes using blinky, handout motor, handout tires etc ?

That is your opinion, let me remind you it is a choice of racing which seems to work in Europe and if you do not like it you can always drive modified.....
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Old 12-08-2015, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
So scrap all classes using blinky, handout motor, handout tires etc ?

That is your opinion, let me remind you it is a choice of racing which seems to work in Europe and if you do not like it you can always drive modified.....
Juan is right & he said nothing about blinky, handout motor, or tires. And limiting FDR only gives an experienced racer/mechanic an advantage, not to mention what is created with tech inspection. It might be working in Europe & you might like it "but to me it is not a solution" & that is my Opinion

Tom
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Old 12-08-2015, 08:38 AM
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Default Spec classes can be done

In the 90s there was a spec class's in carpet oval that work pretty well . I think it was trinity and trc that did it. We had our own spec class at a local oval track . We used RC10DS cars with the same spec battery ,motor , gearing and tires . The races were so close that we always finished in a pack. Spec classes can work
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Old 12-08-2015, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Lone Drifter View Post
In the 90s there was a spec class's in carpet oval that work pretty well . I think it was trinity and trc that did it. We had our own spec class at a local oval track . We used RC10DS cars with the same spec battery ,motor , gearing and tires . The races were so close that we always finished in a pack. Spec classes can work
😎I wish associated would re-release the ds. That was fun.
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Old 12-08-2015, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by hotrodchevy14 View Post
😎I wish associated would re-release the ds. That was fun.
The CRC WGT-R is close to bringing back a modern carpet spec racer. The complete roller with tires and body is right around $300 US.
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Old 12-08-2015, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mac853 View Post
Honestly not quite big.
I have never been but at least is quite smaller than Yatabe.
What do you think if i bring a short stack d4 motor with 12.5mm 5(strong magnet) rotor.
But i think, since is high grip surface, can try 13.5 rotor with high positive timing.
Isn't it?

Best regards
With my experiences with a 21.5, the timing on the motor should be set between 45 - 55 degrees depending on the motor no matter what rotor you have. That is measured by a motor analyzer, not by the markings on the motor can.

With a fixed FDR (use the maximum allowed), you then tune the motor with timing and rotor size. Keep the temperature within the limits of the motor. My R1 and Motiv motors can go up to 90 degrees C, but my MuchMore and Hobbywing can't go over 75 degrees without fading.

For a 21.5 on a smaller track than Yatabe, I would stick with a small rotor (12.5mm) and put the timing to draw less than 4 amps on a motor tester. That is usually around 50 degrees. If the temp is too high after running a couple minutes, reduce timing.

I don't think experimenting with rotor size will gain you advantages, just waste your time. A 21.5 motor already has plenty of torque, no need to add more, forcing you to add more timing, that may overheat your motor.

Also free up your drive train by checking bearings and loosening the belts.
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