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Old 11-12-2005, 09:13 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by EddieO
Soviet, quick question.....how long have you been racing RC cars?

Later EddieO
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Old 11-12-2005, 09:17 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by Nick-C
All you have been able to spell out for me is that your theory doesn't hold water. Let me offer up some actual fact and I will offer up my own theories for you.

Here is the data, you can't argue this:

2005 Mod 4wd Off-Road

4 out of 10 drivers where from the US, more than any other country.
A US driver takes the win.

2005 Mod 2wd Off-Road

7 out of 10 drivers where from the US, more than any other country.
A US driver takes the win.

2004 Mod Sedan

2 out of 10 drivers where from the US

2004 Mod 12th Scale

2 out of 10 drivers where from the US

And here is the theory portion of this post. US drivers without a doubt know how to run off-road when it comes to IFMAR. The issue everyone seems to miss when looking at the on-road results is that it's a massive change in surface for most US racers. It's a fact that most of the top level mod sedan and 12th scale racers in our country race carpet far more than asphalt. While you might say that's our own fault try and remember that half of this country spends half of the year under a blanket of snow, carpet is just more logical for a good portion of the US.

You live in a country that holds some of the best drivers in the world. Show a little respect.

Yours truly,
Nick

Oh...a bit back I definately said that we've been doing great in offroad.

Honestly though, I don't feel that everyone is really "getting" my point here. It's a culture thing.

Good post though.

I'm out...got a stock motor to break in.
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Old 11-12-2005, 09:20 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by Soviet
Well, if you read my initial post, you'd understand that I'm talking about Pro-level drivers who are paid or highly sponsored. Yet yes, what they do filters down to the club level.

Whether or not they have to bump up to a "Pro Stock" 19T or full Modified doesn't matter.

The point is that the "little guy" at the big races never really has a class to call his own, as there is a ton of Pro-sandbaggers distorting and deforming what the "STOCK" class was supposed to be.


The second point is that because of many US drivers lack of willingness to get out of stock, we lack fresh new talent to really compete with the rest of the international IFMAR crowd in modified, which is really the top rung of racing.

Did that spell it out enough for ya???
I think one thing should be made clear. The idea that the role of stock at a big race is to provide a class for beginners is your opinion. The role of stock is open for debate, but to say that pros who race stock are sand bagging is taking this notion of stock as a "beginner" class as a given.

Can we have a vaild debate over the role of stock, yes. It is unfair, however, to lambaste a lot of good drivers and nice people who run stock based on an opinon of what the class should be.

I don't think anyone would debate that mod is the pinnacle of RC racing and the top mod drivers reflect the best in the talent pool. At the same time, one could interpert the intent of stock to be a class that brings parity to equipment and allows the drivers to focus on driving. Less horsepower doesn't preclude the class from being a serious class for serious racers.

On an unrelated note, I am of the opinon that this entire argument is based on peoples sense of entitlement. Why should a racer be able to win the A main at a big race when there are more qualified, better drivers who want to race the class? Qualifying exists to place you in a main where you too can win a cheap plastic trophy racing against drivers equal to your skill. Do those who want to boot the top stock drivers really need the validation of a niche interest like rc to make themselves feel good? I guess if you remove all the talent from the class you can recieve a heartfelt congratulations for winning the A main of crap.
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Old 11-12-2005, 09:28 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by eforer
I think one thing should be made clear. The idea that the role of stock at a big race is to provide a class for beginners is your opinion. The role of stock is open for debate, but to say that pros who race stock are sand bagging is taking this notion of stock as a "beginner" class as a given.

Can we have a vaild debate over the role of stock, yes. It is unfair, however, to lambaste a lot of good drivers and nice people who run stock based on an opinon of what the class should be.

I don't think anyone would debate that mod is the pinnacle of RC racing and the top mod drivers reflect the best in the talent pool. At the same time, one could interpert the intent of the stock to be a class that brings parity to equipment and allows the drivers to focus on driving. Less horsepower doesn't preclude the class from being a serious class for serious racers.

On an unrelated note, I am of the opinon that this entire argument is based on peoples sense of entitlement. Why should a racer be able to win the A main at a big race when there are more qualified, better drivers who want to race the class? Qualifying exists to place you in a main where you too can win a cheap plastic trophy racing against drivers equal to your skill. Do those who want to boot the top stock drivers really need the validation of a niche interest like rc to make themselves feel good? I guess if you remove all the talent from the class you can recieve a heartfelt congratulations for winning the A main of crap.

It isn't about entitlement. If I race formula lites on the weekends, I shouldn't have to run with Micheal Shumacher sandbagging at the big show. And like I stated, this does NOT apply to every-day run of the mill club racing.
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Old 11-12-2005, 09:35 PM   #275
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I raced barber dodge, G-production, F-production, vintage etc, etc. My last race in Barber Dodge I got lapped by ryan hunter reah twice. Am I pissed I was in the same race as a future cart star, heck no. Sure, he had years of karting, lots more seat time in the car, more $ for practice, but you know what he earned his skills and had the right to clobber me. I learned from it.

I am close friends with a multi-time scca national champion, formula ford festival runner up etc. Basically a guy who deserved to reach the pinnacle of road racing. The chips didn't fall that way and he chose to abandon professional racing and continue on as an amature and instructor. Every race he enters he is beyond the class of the field, should he not be allowed to race what he can afford or what he likes. Its absurd to deny him his right to race.

4 time world champion Alan Prost decided to go ice racing against a bunch of drivers that paled in comparsion to the range, depth and breadth of his skills. Should they throw their arms up in the air and say not fair because he's better? Lameo!

Also, sandbagging implies beating up on a buch of less skilled drivers. When the A-D mains are within a lap, how can someone be sandbagging when the top 30 or 40 are that close to the main?

IMO the only way you could have a problem with the stock talent pool is if you race for plastic trophies instead of the joy of racing, the satisfaction derived from improvement and the commradery and fun that goes on at a big race.
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Old 11-12-2005, 09:44 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by Nick-C
You sir are a total assclown.

Please do us all a favor and put that computer back in it's box and bring it back to Best Buy. Take a moment to explain to the salesman that while it worked perfectly you are just too damn stupid to have one.

He should watch for drooling, too. It kinda sneaks up on you, you know?
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Old 11-12-2005, 09:50 PM   #277
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"It isn't about entitlement. If I race formula lites on the weekends, I shouldn't have to run with Micheal Shumacher sandbagging at the big show. And like I stated, this does NOT apply to every-day run of the mill club racing."

I just came across this thread and have read quite a bit of it. OK, so with this remark, your saying that for instance with the Chili Bowl Nationals they shouldn't allow Tony Stewart to run in it even though there are less experienced drivers and no name drivers that can beat him and that have beat him. This is crazy, its up to a driver to raise to the level of their competitors. Why should the competition have to lower down to the level of the less experienced. Thats the whole reason for having qualification and different mains, to separate the difference in skill level among the drivers. If factory drivers want to run in stock, then so be it. The rest of the people will have to step up their own game in order to compete with them. If it weren't for that competition we all might as well be backyard beating and just driving by ourselves on the track.
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Old 11-12-2005, 09:51 PM   #278
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I couldn't agree more
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Old 11-12-2005, 09:54 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by sesimon
"It isn't about entitlement. If I race formula lites on the weekends, I shouldn't have to run with Micheal Shumacher sandbagging at the big show. And like I stated, this does NOT apply to every-day run of the mill club racing."

I just came across this thread and have read quite a bit of it. OK, so with this remark, your saying that for instance with the Chili Bowl Nationals they shouldn't allow Tony Stewart to run in it even though there are less experienced drivers and no name drivers that can beat him and that have beat him. This is crazy, its up to a driver to raise to the level of their competitors. Why should the competition have to lower down to the level of the less experienced. Thats the whole reason for having qualification and different mains, to separate the difference in skill level among the drivers. If factory drivers want to run in stock, then so be it. The rest of the people will have to step up their own game in order to compete with them. If it weren't for that competition we all might as well be backyard beating and just driving by ourselves on the track.

Who's Tony Stewart???

























































Just kidding.

Yup...good point. I suppose there is no real way to make things "fair." Or in the converse, no way to do so without creating a zillion different classes with a zillion different "winners."
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Old 11-12-2005, 10:56 PM   #280
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This thread just makes me want to yell "STOP BEING SUCH AN ENORMOUS GEEK". These are toy cars (pretty sophisticated ones) and if you really care if your country has more top drivers, or you look up to someone or are bothered because they are better at driving and tuning that toy car than you then you really have some messed up thinking and need to get a grip. But I won't say that stuff because it will probably upset a lot of people
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Old 11-12-2005, 11:04 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by Ike
This thread just makes me want to yell "STOP BEING SUCH AN ENORMOUS GEEK". These are toy cars (pretty sophisticated ones) and if you really care if your country has more top drivers, or you look up to someone or are bothered because they are better at driving and tuning that toy car than you then you really have some messed up thinking and need to get a grip. But I won't say that stuff because it will probably upset a lot of people

You response makes me want to yell "Stop getting on the internet for fu*ks sake!!!."

This is a forum about racing toy cars.

There is a multi-billion dollar industry revolving around this hobby.

I had an opinion about our current racing structure and voiced it.

Since there have been nearly 300+ replies and nearly 7,000 viewings within a 48-hour span, that means that alot of people had something to say.

So...in the final analysis, if you don't like going into forums and happening upon someones opinion or debate; perhaps YOU sir shouldn't have internet service.

I write, I write for fun and I enjoy conversing on forums because I live in a shithole small town where no-one has a clue what my hobby is about. Since YOU folks are into my hobby as well, I come here. It's really that simple.

Love,

Sean XOXO
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Old 11-12-2005, 11:10 PM   #282
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One thing hat bothers me is when I go to a race and enter the Amature class, and there are factory drivers in this class. If they are good enough to be sponsored to this level(I know I am not), Why dont they race the expert class? Especially when the TQ in AMA is only 9 seconds off the TQ for Exp. This is on a 18 second track. That pisses me off. Maybe I could make the A if these factory drivers werent in my class. I know I am an amature, thats why I enter the class. I am glad there are drivers that are faster than me to race against, it makes me work on my car and try to find ways to shave 1/10th of seconds in critical parts of the track. Factory drivers belong in the expert class.
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Old 11-12-2005, 11:22 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by Soviet
You response makes me want to yell "Stop getting on the internet for fu*ks sake!!!."

This is a forum about racing toy cars.

There is a multi-billion dollar industry revolving around this hobby.

I had an opinion about our current racing structure and voiced it.

Since there have been nearly 300+ replies and nearly 7,000 viewings within a 48-hour span, that means that alot of people had something to say.

So...in the final analysis, if you don't like going into forums and happening upon someones opinion or debate; perhaps YOU sir shouldn't have internet service.

I write, I write for fun and I enjoy conversing on forums because I live in a shithole small town where no-one has a clue what my hobby is about. Since YOU folks are into my hobby as well, I come here. It's really that simple.

Love,

Sean XOXO
I've expressed my opinion a few times in this thread, just racing RC cars probably qualifies most of us as geeks. This forum is great, and it's nice that we can debate things about RC and ask others for advice. But get a grip and realize that some people have real problems. Caring so much about something in your hobby to the point that you're angered by it kind of defeats the purpose of having that hobby. This is supposed to be fun.
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Old 11-12-2005, 11:33 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Ike
I've expressed my opinion a few times in this thread, just racing RC cars probably qualifies most of us as geeks. This forum is great, and it's nice that we can debate things about RC and ask others for advice. But get a grip and realize that some people have real problems. Caring so much about something in your hobby to the point that you're angered by it kind of defeats the purpose of having that hobby. This is supposed to be fun.
I'm not angry. I enjoy this...
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Old 11-12-2005, 11:37 PM   #285
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I'm not angry. I enjoy this...
That wasn't neccessarily directed at you. Clearly you crave getting attention and riling other people up.
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