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Change carpet onroad in the U.S.?

Change carpet onroad in the U.S.?

Old 11-01-2015, 11:23 AM
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Wonder how 1/12 2s 17.5 open would work for a mod class ?
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Old 11-01-2015, 11:49 AM
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That's question don't even make sense.
2s 17.5 open mod?
It's either or ...period
I'm game for open mod ... No rules
Lighter /2 motors /3s all wheel drive .... Anything goes .... That would be cool to see who would make what to run that class ...
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Old 11-01-2015, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jlfx car audio
That's question don't even make sense.
2s 17.5 open mod?
It's either or ...period
I'm game for open mod ... No rules
Lighter /2 motors /3s all wheel drive .... Anything goes .... That would be cool to see who would make what to run that class ...
I think he was referring to the esc as open (ie boosted).
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Old 11-01-2015, 03:53 PM
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So 12th scale 2s 17.5 open .
I'm sure that would be some stupid power in a 1\12 but the pinion might be larger than the tires lol
I have no clue tho I don't run 12th
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Old 11-01-2015, 05:06 PM
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I know right.
This thread has everyone coming in and pissing on the wall for their own reasons (not everyone really).
I mean , does a 2s battery even have the same foot print as a 1s pack these days ?I'm sure theirs some offbrand batteries that will fit but they need to be batteries currently avaiable and inn the works I would think. I'm thinking no but I could be wrong as I often am.
Cars are builder and designed around the cg of a 1s pack why the heck would anyone want to change that too a 2s class. For spec racing ?
But seems as I said earlier I stand corrected on the batteries . carry on I'll stay out of the 1/12 scale talk

Last edited by jlfx car audio; 11-01-2015 at 06:04 PM.
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Old 11-01-2015, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX
Wonder how 1/12 2s 17.5 open would work for a mod class ?
Several of us in AZ got tired of our 1/12's being gutless, so will be trying this setup out this weekend at our local track. Going to start with blinky on the esc, and gear to 50mm of roll out.

Reedy, Trinity, LRP, Fantom, and ProTek all have the 2s "Low Pro" Shorties, which share exact dimensions with 1s packs.

I grew up running 6-cell mod 1/12, so looking forward to speed again!
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Old 11-01-2015, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX
Wonder how 1/12 2s 17.5 open would work for a mod class ?
It will be very close to 8.5T on 1s. That's fast!
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Old 11-01-2015, 06:59 PM
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LRP and Reedy, among others have 1s form factor lipos, that are 2s

This has until recently has been more popular in the Asian 1/12 market, but with off-road cars running more on-road type circuits, smaller, lower cg packs are now becoming popular, and are quickly becoming useful in the US market

I was just thinking if this would be a boon for a 1/12 mod class, where lower mah packs would have the power, but not unlimited storage, to bring back some of the driving, and conservation of the past

So we use 17.5 which everyone has, a 2s esc, which everyone has, and boom
A mod class that is more approachable to all

Just a thought...



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Old 11-01-2015, 07:37 PM
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Just read a number of pages including Paul C's comments. I could not agree more with Paul. For the past few years I've limited my electric on-road racing due to the insane speeds and lack of time to properly prepare. I've given up on sedan and frankly only prefer 17.5 1/12th scale. What I've replaced them with is the Tamiya TCS racing series for two reasons (i) my 6 and 8 year old can race in the novice class without the pressure of being in a TC class. At their level they are outgunned, get discouraged and will only result in a bad experience and (ii) TCS Mini cooper racing with 21.5 is a great class where the top 10 drivers are actually "racing" due to the reasonable speeds. This year I started racing off-raod and love the fact that its all about the driver! On any given Wednesday night this summer, there were 60-80 entries at our local off-road track.

Any chance to move electric on-road to lower speeds and closer racing format would be great for all. Lets be real, half the guys racing 13.5 1/12th are in point and shoot mode. Let the guys who want to go fast modified and bring 21.5 to 1/12th and TC for the rest of us!
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Old 11-02-2015, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by starrx
21.5tc was fun to drive
nobody broke any parts
racing was close & manageable
There was 0.5 second difference in lap times between USGT and 21.5 TC, with TC being faster due to tires. The racing was closer as well, just like it is in F1 since we went to 25.5 motors.
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Old 11-02-2015, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by CarbonJoe
There was 0.5 second difference in lap times between USGT and 21.5 TC, with TC being faster due to tires. The racing was closer as well, just like it is in F1 since we went to 25.5 motors.
I ws a bit skeptical about the switch in F1. Initially it seemed like a waste to drop $80 on a new motor to go marginally slower but so far the racing has been cleaner and the field much tighter. Without as much power the strategy becomes different when trying to make a pass. From the limited experiment it seems like the same can be said for TC. When the race starts I'm not thinking about what motor I'm running anyway. This isn't to say that a motor change is going to be better for everyone but I'm glad my track is giving it a try.
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Old 11-02-2015, 07:48 AM
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While I maintain the focus should be on how to get more drivers into on-road, this thread seems to keep diverting back to how to re-slice the existing pie instead of growing it first.

That being the case, I am in agreement with 21.5 TC. IF 21.5TC became a thing, then drop 17.5 and make it 13.5. I know that lap times are similar, but that's kinda the point. 13.5 is so close to 17.5 speed wise, but you aren't maxing that 13.5 out on most indoor carpet tracks. And by having a motor that has just a smidge more power than really needed, the motor war issue will be almost non-existent (at least for a while). Make 13.5 "super stock" or whatever you want to call it, and then make the 21.5 "stock" class (little to no sponsorship allowed, if you dominate the class for an extended period of time, you are asked (not forced) to move up.

The issue comes in that we already have a pretty fun 21.5 class. So maybe it's just time to drop 17.5 TC and make it 13.5. That now leave us with 4 TC classes, most tracks will probably only run 2 or 3 of.

I am just getting into 17.5, and I think it's pretty fun. But there are a lot of drivers that are pretty much maxed out in 17.5 and if they had somewhere else to go besides mod probably would. But then again maybe all these drivers like knowing that they are the best of the group and are scared that if they stepped out, they would no longer be on the podium.
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Old 11-02-2015, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by DARKSIDE
how do you expect a racer to move up if they win a A-main event?...is the track going to demand it?....is the track going to supply the equipment to run the next class?....is the track going to ban them from running and supporting the track just to run with the "big boys"......what if they don't have the money to do so?.....what if the don't simply don't like the next class up the ladder?....

just asking?....I think racers should race what they like and enjoy....

All I see is this thread is making onroad more complicated and scaring more people away. Its a cry baby thing.....instead of just doing the simple...which is offer "your" classes at your track....whatever they may be.....that simple....do what is best for your track/area.

why all this?...cause it just proves that onroad is never satisfied...the need for speed and not growth.

we have 2-3 classes at my local track, and the doors are open (10 years and counting)...nothing wrong with it....17.5 TC and VTA...sometimes GT and 12th scale

PS...that includes your "national" events as well....I don't offer Mod TC at the Southern Nationals or Thunder Jam...Why?...cause nobody locally runs it...

oops...I am this year...lol
Originally Posted by mooby64
Having a "Break-out" rule sounds good, in theory, but with the smaller and smaller turnout of weekly racers, it is pointless.
Originally Posted by Kevin K
There is not too many classes in On-Road.....there is not enough people to fill out all the classes that people want to race. That is a problem!

All you have to do is look at Off-Road the Cactus Classic had 12 freakin classes....guess what it had over 400 entries in a few days of opening its registration, so that makes any statement about too many classes MOOT!

On-Road cars are too fast for most people racing on indoor carpet tracks so slowing them down is a good idea. I really do not think getting rid of classes is a good idea it will only push some of what few people are still racing away. What would be a better idea is a class structure based on track size.

The harsh reality is that there is no magic bean or type of car or class that is going to get new people in. People are not flocking to on-road like in the past. Try to keep what we have and work from the center out.

You all raise some very fine points.

What I was getting at with reducing the class options I guess was that if there weren't 10 different TC options or 12th scale options, you wouldn't have 5 guys in a class on a Friday night (or whenever a track runs club races). I know that onroad probably won't get to the level it was at in the 90s and early 2000s in the early days of TC, but Id love to at least see it get to a point where if I look up a video on youtube, there won't be only 5 cars running a class.

As for the A-main promotion system, I went with three because that was the number used on the Web.com/Nike Tour for their "battlefield promotion". It could be really any number (except one mind you), as long as there is incentive available for the success garnered by the given racer.
Me personally, my motivation would be to be able to always challenge myself, racing against progressively better competition with each move up, a motivation that I think ought to be considered by every racer.
I don't think that the race director should be sitting in his director chair, and when a racer hits the "promotion number" that he goes. "well Johnny, that was your 4th A-main win of the season...you are no longer allowed to run 25.5 at all, so sell your 25.5s and get 17.5s...sorry!"
SOmebody touched on the track supplying the equipment for the next class...if I am reading correctly, unless the modern ESCs for brushless motors are keyed to specific winds, much like the ESCs of old, if the track say, had a supply of "award motors", and that way, if a racer earns his "battlefield promotion", they get say, one or two 17.5 motors along with their plaque or trophy so that helps with the transition to the next class up.
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Old 11-02-2015, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by theproffesor
While I maintain the focus should be on how to get more drivers into on-road, this thread seems to keep diverting back to how to re-slice the existing pie instead of growing it first.

That being the case, I am in agreement with 21.5 TC. IF 21.5TC became a thing, then drop 17.5 and make it 13.5. I know that lap times are similar, but that's kinda the point. 13.5 is so close to 17.5 speed wise, but you aren't maxing that 13.5 out on most indoor carpet tracks. And by having a motor that has just a smidge more power than really needed, the motor war issue will be almost non-existent (at least for a while). Make 13.5 "super stock" or whatever you want to call it, and then make the 21.5 "stock" class (little to no sponsorship allowed, if you dominate the class for an extended period of time, you are asked (not forced) to move up.

The issue comes in that we already have a pretty fun 21.5 class. So maybe it's just time to drop 17.5 TC and make it 13.5. That now leave us with 4 TC classes, most tracks will probably only run 2 or 3 of.

I am just getting into 17.5, and I think it's pretty fun. But there are a lot of drivers that are pretty much maxed out in 17.5 and if they had somewhere else to go besides mod probably would. But then again maybe all these drivers like knowing that they are the best of the group and are scared that if they stepped out, they would no longer be on the podium.
Yep, when the other guys trying 21.5 TC and I were discussing it we really envisioned a situation where there would be two TC classes one slower (21.5) and one faster (10.5 or 13.5). 17.5 wouldn't exist.
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Old 11-02-2015, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by theproffesor
While I maintain the focus should be on how to get more drivers into on-road, this thread seems to keep diverting back to how to re-slice the existing pie instead of growing it.
I keep redirecting the convo because I feel the issue is a big picture problem, IMO part of the cause of lack of growth is because the system is broken.

Many guys running VTA or USGT look at 17.5 like it is impossible for them to run due to the speeds. Then you get crap turnouts for ROAR Nationals because they don't run the USVTA classes. You also then get such a diluted class selection at club races where you're running with 3-5 guys, and you have marginal fun. Or large regional events with 13 classes, half of them barely filling one main.

For carpet TC at least, I still feel that 10.5 or 13.5, 21.5, and a 25.5 USGT/VTA hybrid would work the best at trimming classes while still having appeal to almost every driver. 12th is indeed a little tough because 21.5 as the mid class is probably too slow. I think it's probably best to keep it at 17.5 but restrict the highest level class to 10.5 or 13.5 blinky and have a GT12 or Spec 12 class as the amateur class.

Then you'd have 3 12th scale, 3 TC, GTR/Spec175GT, and F1.

8 classes, with at least 2 appealing to most.

Last edited by nwagner; 11-02-2015 at 11:01 AM.
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