Change carpet onroad in the U.S.?
11-02-2015, 03:13 PM
#781
Tech Fanatic
I think it really comes down to is do whats best for your track...let take the gate
the gate went to 25.5 in f1..now they car is more controllable they get 2heats of f1
the gate went to rubber tires on the wgt-r class that only started 2months ago & that class has grown to 2heats as well
usgt at the gate is bout heat & half
17.5 tc is about half heat
vta is bout a half heat
first time last week we tried 21.5tc & we had 6-7 cars on the first day
now a track that is hour or so away from the gate wants to try 21.5tc at their track now
so far what the gate has done was slow every class down...the results those classes has picked up...I cant speak on anybody else track but what they are doing is helping their track & listening to there members...
so do what best for your track...if 17.5 is booming at your track keep it
but if you go to another track they just might have different rules
the gate went to 25.5 in f1..now they car is more controllable they get 2heats of f1
the gate went to rubber tires on the wgt-r class that only started 2months ago & that class has grown to 2heats as well
usgt at the gate is bout heat & half
17.5 tc is about half heat
vta is bout a half heat
first time last week we tried 21.5tc & we had 6-7 cars on the first day
now a track that is hour or so away from the gate wants to try 21.5tc at their track now
so far what the gate has done was slow every class down...the results those classes has picked up...I cant speak on anybody else track but what they are doing is helping their track & listening to there members...
so do what best for your track...if 17.5 is booming at your track keep it
but if you go to another track they just might have different rules
11-02-2015, 06:46 PM
#782
Ok conspiracy theory time.
Manufacturers are around the world don't want open mod, they don't even want spec classes that are just a little more powerful than they need to be. They like that the U.S. Is stuck on 17.5. Why??? Because of two reasons. 1. We run out motors on the ragged edge and cook them on a regular basis. This requires new motors or at least rotors when they get damaged. 2. They can come out with a new faster 17.5 every few months and the market will jump and say thank you.
If we were running motors within there true power range, there wouldn't be a new, faster version on the same wind. You don't see manufactures bragging that they have the faster 8.5 turn do you? No, because if you wanted or needed faster you just get a 6.5 turn.
Now the conspiracy... Our glorious sanctioning bodies and the manufactures colluded knowing these facts to make 17.5 the class in the U.S. For some reason it stuck in onroad, but in off-road, with the exception of SCT, 17.5 has all but died out. And even 17.5 SCT is really only run, guess what, indoors...
Discuss.
Manufacturers are around the world don't want open mod, they don't even want spec classes that are just a little more powerful than they need to be. They like that the U.S. Is stuck on 17.5. Why??? Because of two reasons. 1. We run out motors on the ragged edge and cook them on a regular basis. This requires new motors or at least rotors when they get damaged. 2. They can come out with a new faster 17.5 every few months and the market will jump and say thank you.
If we were running motors within there true power range, there wouldn't be a new, faster version on the same wind. You don't see manufactures bragging that they have the faster 8.5 turn do you? No, because if you wanted or needed faster you just get a 6.5 turn.
Now the conspiracy... Our glorious sanctioning bodies and the manufactures colluded knowing these facts to make 17.5 the class in the U.S. For some reason it stuck in onroad, but in off-road, with the exception of SCT, 17.5 has all but died out. And even 17.5 SCT is really only run, guess what, indoors...
Discuss.
11-03-2015, 09:21 AM
#783
I think it really comes down to is do whats best for your track...let take the gate
the gate went to 25.5 in f1..now they car is more controllable they get 2heats of f1
the gate went to rubber tires on the wgt-r class that only started 2months ago & that class has grown to 2heats as well
usgt at the gate is bout heat & half
17.5 tc is about half heat
vta is bout a half heat
first time last week we tried 21.5tc & we had 6-7 cars on the first day
now a track that is hour or so away from the gate wants to try 21.5tc at their track now
so far what the gate has done was slow every class down...the results those classes has picked up...I cant speak on anybody else track but what they are doing is helping their track & listening to there members...
so do what best for your track...if 17.5 is booming at your track keep it
but if you go to another track they just might have different rules
the gate went to 25.5 in f1..now they car is more controllable they get 2heats of f1
the gate went to rubber tires on the wgt-r class that only started 2months ago & that class has grown to 2heats as well
usgt at the gate is bout heat & half
17.5 tc is about half heat
vta is bout a half heat
first time last week we tried 21.5tc & we had 6-7 cars on the first day
now a track that is hour or so away from the gate wants to try 21.5tc at their track now
so far what the gate has done was slow every class down...the results those classes has picked up...I cant speak on anybody else track but what they are doing is helping their track & listening to there members...
so do what best for your track...if 17.5 is booming at your track keep it
but if you go to another track they just might have different rules
:-) see my post a number pf pages back :-)
11-03-2015, 09:26 AM
#784
Tech Fanatic
11-03-2015, 12:45 PM
#787
You have basically 5 different motor options as far as class goes (maybe 6): 25.5, 21.5, 17.5, 13.5 and Open Mod (some would say 10.5 as well). We in the US live in a culture where everything needs to be fast: fast food, fast cars, fast computers, etc. Another problem is there is very little motivation to move up and so we have a bunch of fast guys in 17.5, and even 13.5, but there are very few Americans making noise at the world level, while you see A-mains (and quite a few of the upper mains in general) at the top events (including the IFMAR Worlds) populated with Europeans and Asians and most of the Yanks are languishing in the G Main or so, with a few making the upper mains on occasion. Im not saying that Americans need to dominate per se, but Id like to see more guys actually progress and start pushing some of these hot shoes from Germany and Japan and other places. Now we may be looking at two different issues with my saying that, but I think that that needs to be addressed as much as anything
11-03-2015, 12:51 PM
#788
Ok, normally I run 17.5 TC and USGT but weekend I ran 21.5 TC.
As far as straight away speed goes, its the same as USGT. Lap times though are about half a second quicker than USGT due to better tires.
The car was a lot easier to drive than a 17.5TC or USGT and was way more consistent.
The racing was a lot closer as well as lap times. For a newbie, it's an obvious choice over 17.5 or USGT.
The only problem I see is if stock TC goes 21.5, and gains in popularity, then USGT runs the risk of dying out unless it drops to 25.5T. I can't see many people running 21.5 TC and USGT at the same time.
What if USGT simply becomes the new Stock TC? I mean they have "stock" tires, with treads, stock bodies, BMW, Porsche, Nissan Cadillac and so on.
17.5 TC becomes Super Stock, and Modified is anything 10.5T or lower.
USVTA can be the "amateur" class.
Instead of changing motors, we simply change the names of the classes and everyone is happy
Speaking of happy, I stuck a 10.5T motor in my 17.5 car this weekend and had a blast. Why is this class not more popular, I love it
As far as straight away speed goes, its the same as USGT. Lap times though are about half a second quicker than USGT due to better tires.
The car was a lot easier to drive than a 17.5TC or USGT and was way more consistent.
The racing was a lot closer as well as lap times. For a newbie, it's an obvious choice over 17.5 or USGT.
The only problem I see is if stock TC goes 21.5, and gains in popularity, then USGT runs the risk of dying out unless it drops to 25.5T. I can't see many people running 21.5 TC and USGT at the same time.
What if USGT simply becomes the new Stock TC? I mean they have "stock" tires, with treads, stock bodies, BMW, Porsche, Nissan Cadillac and so on.
17.5 TC becomes Super Stock, and Modified is anything 10.5T or lower.
USVTA can be the "amateur" class.
Instead of changing motors, we simply change the names of the classes and everyone is happy
Speaking of happy, I stuck a 10.5T motor in my 17.5 car this weekend and had a blast. Why is this class not more popular, I love it
11-03-2015, 02:19 PM
#792
Tech Fanatic
i don't think usgt will die off if 21.5 tc was an class...because there 2 different rules & specs for each class...i think it would be easer for someone to run both classes...as of now most ppl have 2 or more tc's & two or more 21.5
right now im in the middle of building a wgt-r car...that's where my 17.5 is going
right now im in the middle of building a wgt-r car...that's where my 17.5 is going
11-03-2015, 02:30 PM
#793
This thread has legs!
Carpet racing thrives in the northwest (and by thrive I mean consistent, multi-heat turnouts over several years, novices racers graduated to full-speed classes, and financially sustainable venues), and while we have certainly made adjustments over time, we have also been consistent in our offerings. Touring cars in particular have always been strong.
Scale Spec: 25.5 Novak or 540-J motor, 1450 g., scale-appropriate tires, cool bodies.
Stock TC: ROAR-spec. ROAR 17.5 motors. We have always spec'd a tire.
Mod TC: ROAR-spec. Also a spec tire.
Novice is run what ya' brung, mostly TC's with lower power motors.
One thing that is very important, and possibly contrary to expectation, is that we do not promote classes as being progressive. That is, people are free to find their "home" in a class, and get their race on. It is a not-uncommon thing to see a Mod/Scale Spec double up by a single racer. Far from cherry-picking, it gives guys freedom to scratch an itch when it suits them. All racing classes are considered high skill endeavors.
Certainly, some take their racing more seriously than others, but we dispatch entirely with the notion of "moving up." That is anathema to long-term sustainability in a program. Dedication to scale racing, or stock racing, is every bit as gratifying as dedication to Mod.
Carpet racing thrives in the northwest (and by thrive I mean consistent, multi-heat turnouts over several years, novices racers graduated to full-speed classes, and financially sustainable venues), and while we have certainly made adjustments over time, we have also been consistent in our offerings. Touring cars in particular have always been strong.
Scale Spec: 25.5 Novak or 540-J motor, 1450 g., scale-appropriate tires, cool bodies.
Stock TC: ROAR-spec. ROAR 17.5 motors. We have always spec'd a tire.
Mod TC: ROAR-spec. Also a spec tire.
Novice is run what ya' brung, mostly TC's with lower power motors.
One thing that is very important, and possibly contrary to expectation, is that we do not promote classes as being progressive. That is, people are free to find their "home" in a class, and get their race on. It is a not-uncommon thing to see a Mod/Scale Spec double up by a single racer. Far from cherry-picking, it gives guys freedom to scratch an itch when it suits them. All racing classes are considered high skill endeavors.
Certainly, some take their racing more seriously than others, but we dispatch entirely with the notion of "moving up." That is anathema to long-term sustainability in a program. Dedication to scale racing, or stock racing, is every bit as gratifying as dedication to Mod.
11-04-2015, 12:00 PM
#794
This thread has legs!
Carpet racing thrives in the northwest (and by thrive I mean consistent, multi-heat turnouts over several years, novices racers graduated to full-speed classes, and financially sustainable venues), and while we have certainly made adjustments over time, we have also been consistent in our offerings. Touring cars in particular have always been strong.
Scale Spec: 25.5 Novak or 540-J motor, 1450 g., scale-appropriate tires, cool bodies.
Stock TC: ROAR-spec. ROAR 17.5 motors. We have always spec'd a tire.
Mod TC: ROAR-spec. Also a spec tire.
Novice is run what ya' brung, mostly TC's with lower power motors.
One thing that is very important, and possibly contrary to expectation, is that we do not promote classes as being progressive. That is, people are free to find their "home" in a class, and get their race on. It is a not-uncommon thing to see a Mod/Scale Spec double up by a single racer. Far from cherry-picking, it gives guys freedom to scratch an itch when it suits them. All racing classes are considered high skill endeavors.
Certainly, some take their racing more seriously than others, but we dispatch entirely with the notion of "moving up." That is anathema to long-term sustainability in a program. Dedication to scale racing, or stock racing, is every bit as gratifying as dedication to Mod.
__________________
Todd Mason
Seattle RC Racers
Carpet racing thrives in the northwest (and by thrive I mean consistent, multi-heat turnouts over several years, novices racers graduated to full-speed classes, and financially sustainable venues), and while we have certainly made adjustments over time, we have also been consistent in our offerings. Touring cars in particular have always been strong.
Scale Spec: 25.5 Novak or 540-J motor, 1450 g., scale-appropriate tires, cool bodies.
Stock TC: ROAR-spec. ROAR 17.5 motors. We have always spec'd a tire.
Mod TC: ROAR-spec. Also a spec tire.
Novice is run what ya' brung, mostly TC's with lower power motors.
One thing that is very important, and possibly contrary to expectation, is that we do not promote classes as being progressive. That is, people are free to find their "home" in a class, and get their race on. It is a not-uncommon thing to see a Mod/Scale Spec double up by a single racer. Far from cherry-picking, it gives guys freedom to scratch an itch when it suits them. All racing classes are considered high skill endeavors.
Certainly, some take their racing more seriously than others, but we dispatch entirely with the notion of "moving up." That is anathema to long-term sustainability in a program. Dedication to scale racing, or stock racing, is every bit as gratifying as dedication to Mod.
__________________
Todd Mason
Seattle RC Racers
Very well said - and I too love that you don't force drivers to move up...I race the class(es) I feel comfortable with - and if I don't like how a track or club has its structure, I won't run it. I race because I enjoy it - on some tracks, that may be MOD, or others it may be USVTA speeds.
11-04-2015, 12:14 PM
#795
This thread has legs!
One thing that is very important, and possibly contrary to expectation, is that we do not promote classes as being progressive. That is, people are free to find their "home" in a class, and get their race on. It is a not-uncommon thing to see a Mod/Scale Spec double up by a single racer. Far from cherry-picking, it gives guys freedom to scratch an itch when it suits them. All racing classes are considered high skill endeavors.
Certainly, some take their racing more seriously than others, but we dispatch entirely with the notion of "moving up." That is anathema to long-term sustainability in a program. Dedication to scale racing, or stock racing, is every bit as gratifying as dedication to Mod.
One thing that is very important, and possibly contrary to expectation, is that we do not promote classes as being progressive. That is, people are free to find their "home" in a class, and get their race on. It is a not-uncommon thing to see a Mod/Scale Spec double up by a single racer. Far from cherry-picking, it gives guys freedom to scratch an itch when it suits them. All racing classes are considered high skill endeavors.
Certainly, some take their racing more seriously than others, but we dispatch entirely with the notion of "moving up." That is anathema to long-term sustainability in a program. Dedication to scale racing, or stock racing, is every bit as gratifying as dedication to Mod.
