Change carpet onroad in the U.S.?
10-14-2015, 08:32 PM
#437
Originally Posted by Kave
He won the nats 2 years ago but has been top 3 at all of the above so I think it's safe to say winning was a possible.
But I go to big races, I talk to most of the Amain guys. I will guarantee that most of them are not happy with the feel of their cars on these new tires and that only gets worse as the cars get faster.
I have heard "12th scale used to be fun and my favorite class more than a couple times in the last 2 years" And it was all in relation to this new foam.
Frankly, Tires in all classes are hurting the hobby. All the rubber tires are way to soft right now and make cars less fun to drive and racing way less close than it used to be.
Spec tire used to mean hard tire that lasted a long time but were consistent and cheap. Almost every single part of that sentence does not exist anymore with rubber tires.
10-14-2015, 08:37 PM
#438
Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace
I'm not going to argue with you because John is a great racer and nice guy and is always super fast.
But I go to big races, I talk to most of the Amain guys. I will guarantee that most of them are not happy with the feel of their cars on these new tires and that only gets worse as the cars get faster.
I have heard "12th scale used to be fun and my favorite class more than a couple times in the last 2 years" And it was all in relation to this new foam.
Frankly, Tires in all classes are hurting the hobby. All the rubber tires are way to soft right now and make cars less fun to drive and racing way less close than it used to be.
Spec tire used to mean hard tire that lasted a long time but were consistent and cheap. Almost every single part of that sentence does not exist anymore with rubber tires.
But I go to big races, I talk to most of the Amain guys. I will guarantee that most of them are not happy with the feel of their cars on these new tires and that only gets worse as the cars get faster.
I have heard "12th scale used to be fun and my favorite class more than a couple times in the last 2 years" And it was all in relation to this new foam.
Frankly, Tires in all classes are hurting the hobby. All the rubber tires are way to soft right now and make cars less fun to drive and racing way less close than it used to be.
Spec tire used to mean hard tire that lasted a long time but were consistent and cheap. Almost every single part of that sentence does not exist anymore with rubber tires.
10-14-2015, 08:45 PM
#439
Tech Regular
iTrader: (5)
Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace
Spec tire used to mean hard tire that lasted a long time but were consistent and cheap. Almost every single part of that sentence does not exist anymore with rubber tires.
Most of the time the rubber is fine but the problem lies mostly with the inserts.
The super soft lower profile inserts (foam) whilst they provide more grip after a couple of runs the rubber is grained and death ring starts to appear.
The same rubber with a harder thicker molded insert would be consistent for 15-20 runs.
10-14-2015, 08:54 PM
#440
Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace
I'm not going to argue with you because John is a great racer and nice guy and is always super fast.
But I go to big races, I talk to most of the Amain guys. I will guarantee that most of them are not happy with the feel of their cars on these new tires and that only gets worse as the cars get faster.
I have heard "12th scale used to be fun and my favorite class more than a couple times in the last 2 years" And it was all in relation to this new foam.
Frankly, Tires in all classes are hurting the hobby. All the rubber tires are way to soft right now and make cars less fun to drive and racing way less close than it used to be.
Spec tire used to mean hard tire that lasted a long time but were consistent and cheap. Almost every single part of that sentence does not exist anymore with rubber tires.
But I go to big races, I talk to most of the Amain guys. I will guarantee that most of them are not happy with the feel of their cars on these new tires and that only gets worse as the cars get faster.
I have heard "12th scale used to be fun and my favorite class more than a couple times in the last 2 years" And it was all in relation to this new foam.
Frankly, Tires in all classes are hurting the hobby. All the rubber tires are way to soft right now and make cars less fun to drive and racing way less close than it used to be.
Spec tire used to mean hard tire that lasted a long time but were consistent and cheap. Almost every single part of that sentence does not exist anymore with rubber tires.
Do you think any of that feel has to do with SXT vs: JTG ?
Both work well, but imo that greasy feel of JTG was easier to drive, than what we have been running the last few seasons
Professor:
There was Off-Road, and Nitro too
But most of us ran 1/12
The Cleveland Indoor Champs was really something special back then
Max 400 entries, 300 Stock, 100 mod, you could race both if you wanted
Part of a Triple Crown series
And it was just 1/12 scale
Pretty cool time to be around RC
Not that OnRoad isn't super cool now too, with IIC, ETS, the explosion again of 1/12 in the UK and such
IIC 13'
10-15-2015, 04:55 AM
#442
Originally Posted by EDWARD2003
+1
Most 1/12th Japanese drivers I know don't run the new JFT tires.
Depending on the class and carpet conditions, most people are running magenta, pink, and double pink.
Most 1/12th Japanese drivers I know don't run the new JFT tires.
Depending on the class and carpet conditions, most people are running magenta, pink, and double pink.
10-15-2015, 06:30 AM
#443
Originally Posted by theproffesor
I not looking for slower for myself. I just stopped racing USVTA due to lack of interest in my area and started 17.5. So I have that and USGT now. I enjoy getting used to how fast they are. And 25.5 or even 21.5 may not be too fast for a beginner, but newcomers want at least the opportunity to race, not having to keep getting out of the leaders way. You can't really learn that way. You're never running consistent laps. That means having like talented drivers to run against.
Originally Posted by PACaSteel
As I read it, a path to let on road carpet to attract and grow some new racers that can expect to compete with the existing racers in this life time, thus leading to healthy growth and support for all.
Originally Posted by DARKSIDE
Im really trying to understand what everyone here is asking for?....
slower classes?....
slower classes?....
well by far the slowest and simple class is USVTA...correct....and if that is to slow, they can run USGT. And then once they get a foot hold and want more speed 17.5 TC is next.
I dont understand what or why this is a miss.....the only thing I can gather is that most of you dont like VTA or GT, and want a slower class for Touring Car with touring car bodies and tires, but with 25.5 or 21.5 motors.
you dont want to help the hobby grow with est classes, you want your own class to fit your needs. To me that doesnt make sense. We have classes for all skill levels and budgets....why not get in where you feel best.
25.5 motors roar blinky
21.5 motors roar blinky
17.5 motors roar blinky
13.5 motors roar blinky
Mod open esc
the motor steps are there...thats 5 different classes classes for same chassis and pretty much same esc,servo, radio ect...tires motors and bodies are only the change, which we change anyway.
lets just say this make sense....what class and skill do you belong in?...and for promoters and race directors, which classes are you going to offer for your size track?....
guys we make things way to complicated...we all know Im a walking USVTA pom pom, but I also care to see the other classes grow as racers improve.
hope your track and area come to a real understanding of what is needed.
I dont speak on 12th scale, but 17.5 seems a easy drive, depending on size of the track
10-15-2015, 07:32 AM
#444
I think you missed why I was saying. The speeds of USVTA and USGT are not the problem. I just don't believe those are "entry level" classes due to the high level of competition they have within them. Until recently I was racin against a driver who had multiple sponsorships. Granted I don't believe any of them were full sponsorships, but he had them non the less. I have been doing this a long time and am by no means a novice. I don't mind racing against the sponsored guys. I actually enjoy it. When my car makes a hot lap that is equal to their average lap, I know I have the car dialed in and I just need to learn to drive clean lines and no trips to wal-mart. But that me and a rare few older new guys that have been involved in other forms of racing for years.
I see the problem with the new kid racing those people. Or even racing me. Not because of arrogance that I'm better and don't want to share the track, but because of the intimidation factor inherent with it. I brought a neighbor kid (15 year old) out to the track some time ago and he loved running my onroad cars on the track. What he didn't like was being in the same heat as me and the sponsored driver. He was scared he would be in the way, he got tired of going way wide to allow us to pass, and most of all he was saddened that no matter what or how long (to a 15 year old 6 months is an eternity) he raced, he would most likely never place in the top 5 let alone get a podium finish.
This isn't about giving every new driver a trophy at the end of the day, but having a place for them to race with other drivers on an equal footing.
Please stop with the to get better, you race better. That's only true to a point. And also when you talk with that better driver about their car and that driver shares information. The new kids learns how to be better. You can't put a little league baseball team made up of 10 years old against a college team and expect the little leaguers to get better just because. Why should we expect that in our little hobby.
Leave everything the way it is and add a novice class. 21.5 for outdoor and 25.5 for indoor, no minimum weights. Run the rules of the class other than motor and weight that you find most appealing. When you get comfortable and consistent with your car and driving it, you move out of novice. It's that simple.
I see the problem with the new kid racing those people. Or even racing me. Not because of arrogance that I'm better and don't want to share the track, but because of the intimidation factor inherent with it. I brought a neighbor kid (15 year old) out to the track some time ago and he loved running my onroad cars on the track. What he didn't like was being in the same heat as me and the sponsored driver. He was scared he would be in the way, he got tired of going way wide to allow us to pass, and most of all he was saddened that no matter what or how long (to a 15 year old 6 months is an eternity) he raced, he would most likely never place in the top 5 let alone get a podium finish.
This isn't about giving every new driver a trophy at the end of the day, but having a place for them to race with other drivers on an equal footing.
Please stop with the to get better, you race better. That's only true to a point. And also when you talk with that better driver about their car and that driver shares information. The new kids learns how to be better. You can't put a little league baseball team made up of 10 years old against a college team and expect the little leaguers to get better just because. Why should we expect that in our little hobby.
Leave everything the way it is and add a novice class. 21.5 for outdoor and 25.5 for indoor, no minimum weights. Run the rules of the class other than motor and weight that you find most appealing. When you get comfortable and consistent with your car and driving it, you move out of novice. It's that simple.
10-15-2015, 07:42 AM
#445
Myron,
I think the discussion is around this:
VTA is a great speed for a beginner and experienced driver alike. The racing is great. Once someone wants to move to a faster car, they have to get different tires, different bodies and change their setup (USGT). If they want to go faster still, they again have to get different tires, different bodies and change the setup again (though a lot less). If the actual Stock Touring class was an actual appropriate speed, people could start off there, develop their car and driving, while at the same time, not having to change classes and significant portions of their hardware to progress. VTA is a neat spec class and I advocate for it staying around, but to me Stock needs to be adjusted so that we see more racers and deeper fields everywhere. The guys who are at the top of their game in stock can go to mod if they don't want to go slower (as Nate Wagner is advocating for).
I think the discussion is around this:
VTA is a great speed for a beginner and experienced driver alike. The racing is great. Once someone wants to move to a faster car, they have to get different tires, different bodies and change their setup (USGT). If they want to go faster still, they again have to get different tires, different bodies and change the setup again (though a lot less). If the actual Stock Touring class was an actual appropriate speed, people could start off there, develop their car and driving, while at the same time, not having to change classes and significant portions of their hardware to progress. VTA is a neat spec class and I advocate for it staying around, but to me Stock needs to be adjusted so that we see more racers and deeper fields everywhere. The guys who are at the top of their game in stock can go to mod if they don't want to go slower (as Nate Wagner is advocating for).
10-15-2015, 07:45 AM
#446
I'm going to say it again because this backs up what the Professor is trying to get across.
Box Stock Class
There are three RTR cars on the market that could be raced, and they even have 2.5GHz radios.
HPI RS4 Sport 2
HPI RS4 Sport 3
Associated Apex
Box Stock Class
There are three RTR cars on the market that could be raced, and they even have 2.5GHz radios.
HPI RS4 Sport 2
HPI RS4 Sport 3
Associated Apex
10-15-2015, 07:53 AM
#447
Myron, you stated the problem when you listed the FIVE current TC classes.
That's way too many to run at large event and it dilutes the entry count, as has been repeated fairly often in this thread. I Iove what the guys did when they built up the USVTA organization. It was a stop-gap for what was wrong with the industries inaction to reign in the tech leap forward in lap times. The popularity of VTA and USGT should speak for itself that many more feel 17.5 is outrageous for a supposed stock class.
That's way too many to run at large event and it dilutes the entry count, as has been repeated fairly often in this thread. I Iove what the guys did when they built up the USVTA organization. It was a stop-gap for what was wrong with the industries inaction to reign in the tech leap forward in lap times. The popularity of VTA and USGT should speak for itself that many more feel 17.5 is outrageous for a supposed stock class.
10-15-2015, 08:28 AM
#448
Originally Posted by theproffesor
I think you missed why I was saying. The speeds of USVTA and USGT are not the problem. I just don't believe those are "entry level" classes due to the high level of competition they have within them. Until recently I was racin against a driver who had multiple sponsorships. Granted I don't believe any of them were full sponsorships, but he had them non the less. I have been doing this a long time and am by no means a novice. I don't mind racing against the sponsored guys. I actually enjoy it. When my car makes a hot lap that is equal to their average lap, I know I have the car dialed in and I just need to learn to drive clean lines and no trips to wal-mart. But that me and a rare few older new guys that have been involved in other forms of racing for years.
I see the problem with the new kid racing those people. Or even racing me. Not because of arrogance that I'm better and don't want to share the track, but because of the intimidation factor inherent with it. I brought a neighbor kid (15 year old) out to the track some time ago and he loved running my onroad cars on the track. What he didn't like was being in the same heat as me and the sponsored driver. He was scared he would be in the way, he got tired of going way wide to allow us to pass, and most of all he was saddened that no matter what or how long (to a 15 year old 6 months is an eternity) he raced, he would most likely never place in the top 5 let alone get a podium finish.
This isn't about giving every new driver a trophy at the end of the day, but having a place for them to race with other drivers on an equal footing.
Please stop with the to get better, you race better. That's only true to a point. And also when you talk with that better driver about their car and that driver shares information. The new kids learns how to be better. You can't put a little league baseball team made up of 10 years old against a college team and expect the little leaguers to get better just because. Why should we expect that in our little hobby.
Leave everything the way it is and add a novice class. 21.5 for outdoor and 25.5 for indoor, no minimum weights. Run the rules of the class other than motor and weight that you find most appealing. When you get comfortable and consistent with your car and driving it, you move out of novice. It's that simple.
I see the problem with the new kid racing those people. Or even racing me. Not because of arrogance that I'm better and don't want to share the track, but because of the intimidation factor inherent with it. I brought a neighbor kid (15 year old) out to the track some time ago and he loved running my onroad cars on the track. What he didn't like was being in the same heat as me and the sponsored driver. He was scared he would be in the way, he got tired of going way wide to allow us to pass, and most of all he was saddened that no matter what or how long (to a 15 year old 6 months is an eternity) he raced, he would most likely never place in the top 5 let alone get a podium finish.
This isn't about giving every new driver a trophy at the end of the day, but having a place for them to race with other drivers on an equal footing.
Please stop with the to get better, you race better. That's only true to a point. And also when you talk with that better driver about their car and that driver shares information. The new kids learns how to be better. You can't put a little league baseball team made up of 10 years old against a college team and expect the little leaguers to get better just because. Why should we expect that in our little hobby.
Leave everything the way it is and add a novice class. 21.5 for outdoor and 25.5 for indoor, no minimum weights. Run the rules of the class other than motor and weight that you find most appealing. When you get comfortable and consistent with your car and driving it, you move out of novice. It's that simple.
The last thing he wanted to do was change the running order of a race by not having the experience of the faster guys and crashing into them.
The intimidation factor is real and there for most when they start racing.
If a 25.5 motor was introduced as the newcomer motor and it was to still attract the seasoned / sponsored racer to join in and steal their glory then the hobby really has sunk to a new low.
Why do some people feel the need to muscle into every class going just for the sake of winning? Where has the decent mentality gone?
If it resulted in some of the experienced racers going off in a hissy fit and leaving the scene, so be it. A race director should have morals and have a class where you are on the first step of the ladder, sadly it isn't encouraged enough.
Over the years the hobby has changed a lot, its become faster, less time consuming and cheaper in some ways, but the newcomer still needs their own proving ground
Rant over.
10-15-2015, 08:28 AM
#449
so only offer what you think is most important at such events. I offer VTA and GT, and now F1 at the Southern Nats...why?...cause those are the classes that show the most popular for the event. 17.5 TC and 12th scale are track owners classes....
I also offer Jr VTA....and I am very loose on the rules...
We have also offered 4 classes of VTA when that's all we ran locally...
Expert
Sportsman
Rookie
Jr
and it worked fine....
I think you just have to find what works for your track and racers....if the Classic didn't offer VTA, and had a 25.5 TC class....would I run it?....No, but that doesn't mean several others wouldn't.
we all want whats best....and that can be multiple things.....just build your club/track and when its time for your big event, no matter what happens your locals will be happy....see WGT at Thunder
I also offer Jr VTA....and I am very loose on the rules...
We have also offered 4 classes of VTA when that's all we ran locally...
Expert
Sportsman
Rookie
Jr
and it worked fine....
I think you just have to find what works for your track and racers....if the Classic didn't offer VTA, and had a 25.5 TC class....would I run it?....No, but that doesn't mean several others wouldn't.
we all want whats best....and that can be multiple things.....just build your club/track and when its time for your big event, no matter what happens your locals will be happy....see WGT at Thunder
10-15-2015, 09:29 AM
#450
Worrying only about the local situation has obviously not been working over the years when looking at the overall popularity of onroad. People won't run one type of class at home when the large events run something else.
It's going to take the governing bodies making the changes. Hence the purpose of this thread.
I feel like you aren't getting the big picture theory behind this discussion, Myron. You keep focusing on the single point about 17.5 being too fast as "stock" and the fix is just select another of the 5 classes instead.
It's going to take the governing bodies making the changes. Hence the purpose of this thread.
I feel like you aren't getting the big picture theory behind this discussion, Myron. You keep focusing on the single point about 17.5 being too fast as "stock" and the fix is just select another of the 5 classes instead.
