Go Back  R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road
World GT-R Rules and Discussion >

World GT-R Rules and Discussion

Like Tree849Likes

World GT-R Rules and Discussion

Old 10-28-2021, 08:53 PM
  #2206  
Tech Regular
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 434
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

I am just mounting a new Akura and it doesn't seem that far off the other bodies that I have.

Rear fender to fender:
Akura 191mm
Protoform C8 191mm
McAllister Mustang 192mm
Zoo 193mm
Protoform C7 196mm

In my opinion, the issue isn't with this one body, the issue is with the rule. It is nearly impossible to enforce. SCCA full scale ran into the same issue. Tires must be within the fenders, but guys just pulled the fenders out by hand to make them a little wider and since there is no factory spec for how wide a fender is, there was absolutely no way to consistently tech for pass/fail. The rule said that it was to be measured by using a plumb bob from the upper most curve of the fender with the car placed on a flat surface. Flat surfaces were difficult to find and could be disputed. Guys pulling fenders with no way of truly measuring could be disputed. A rule that cannot be measured easily into a pass/fail situation will be impossible for tech to manage.

My car currently sits 195mm width. I have run as narrow as 192. The Akura fenders look pretty close by eye balling from the top, but with no defined way to measure it, we could argue all day long in tech at the subjective nature of the measurement. Or, if I wanted to, I could bend the rear fenders out a little at the seam at the top of the fender. Who's to say that I didn't get one from the factory that measured 194 or 195? There won't be any crease showing - it's just a little bend. If I run my Zoo, which measures 194 and my car is 195, am I going to get bounced in tech? Or would I be allowed to grab the second one that I have that measures 195? So what is the official width of each body on the list - do we need to have record of that in tech from now on?

The only way to have an enforceable rule is to set a minimum and/or maximum track width for the class, just as SCCA has had to change to. There is an easy way to measure pass/fail using a roll-through box. Today's fastest bodies are all between 191 and 196mm. I don't see any harm in having a 195mm maximum track width and letting rear tires stick out a little. Maybe some cars cannot get than narrow, I don't know. I have an old CEFX car that cannot get narrower than 197 with a diff, but with a spool, no problem. As stated, I don't have an issue with the Akura body, the issue is the rule itself. But reading this thread, I'm not sure others have as much of an issue with this body being on the list than issue with other bodies not being included. Maybe there is a better way to lobby for other bodies to make the list?

Here is the exact rule as written. "Tires cannot stick outside the body." As measured from where? If I look at the Akura at the front of the rear fender well, my tires are well within the fender at 195mm. It is a subjective rule that cannot effectively be enforced.
hanulec likes this.

Last edited by MC Hamilton; 10-28-2021 at 09:08 PM.
MC Hamilton is offline  
Old 10-29-2021, 05:45 AM
  #2207  
Tech Master
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Medina, Ohio
Posts: 1,883
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

It is a hard rule to enforce but also a visually obvious one. Easiest way, if you drop a caliper down from the top and it touches tires before body it's not legal by the rule. Main point is to keep them looking realistic as we can. Dumper gave me a hard time once when I was running the MX Stang and my sidewalls were out. I narrowed the car in the front to get them in and went faster.
Point to it all is nothing is perfect and one car may be able to get narrower than a other. A body may fit one and not the other for various reasons. Some aren't very flexible with post location and can be a pain. None of that is a reason to ban a body.
TOM MAR likes this.
old_dude is offline  
Old 10-29-2021, 05:52 AM
  #2208  
Tech Master
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Medina, Ohio
Posts: 1,883
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by ShtLuck
its just obvious this body is most commonly not legal. I have had to tell guys at my track they cant run it due to how it fits. It didnt fit 90% of the cars running it the race, yet bodies that should be legal arent.
It isn't a problem with the body, it is a problem with the one using it. If their car doesn't fit under it then they don't use the body or they make the car fit under. If they want to run it bad enough they may want to switch to a chassis that will fit under it but that is extreme. The CRC car will fit under the Akura easily as it can be made to go to 190 front and rear. Do you want to ban that car because it can and others can't? You really don't need to answer that question but it is really the same thing.
TOM MAR likes this.
old_dude is offline  
Old 10-29-2021, 08:17 AM
  #2209  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (45)
 
ShtLuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Actually shipping orders
Posts: 3,132
Trader Rating: 45 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by old_dude
It isn't a problem with the body, it is a problem with the one using it. If their car doesn't fit under it then they don't use the body or they make the car fit under. If they want to run it bad enough they may want to switch to a chassis that will fit under it but that is extreme. The CRC car will fit under the Akura easily as it can be made to go to 190 front and rear. Do you want to ban that car because it can and others can't? You really don't need to answer that question but it is really the same thing.
it would be more accurate comparison to say that car A meets all the rules, and car B can be made to fit the rules but car A isnt legal because we arbitrarily decided it isnt.
MC Hamilton likes this.
ShtLuck is offline  
Old 10-29-2021, 08:34 AM
  #2210  
Tech Regular
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 434
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

My Roche P10 Evo cannot go narrower than 194 mm. So it looks like with the Akura, if I stay at 2 degrees of toe out, I would be just out of spec… maybe… depending on where we are measuring from. How silly do we want to be with this for a class that was meant for the fun of it? I could always bend the front fender out a little and it would look compliment. Again, we need easy to understand pass/fail rules. This one isn’t.
ShtLuck likes this.
MC Hamilton is offline  
Old 10-29-2021, 10:10 AM
  #2211  
R/C Tech Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
mrreet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 2,043
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by ShtLuck
it would be more accurate comparison to say that car A meets all the rules, and car B can be made to fit the rules but car A isnt legal because we arbitrarily decided it isnt.
Just curious. Does the ProtoForm Ford GT (190 version) fit on you car?
mrreet2001 is offline  
Old 10-29-2021, 10:25 AM
  #2212  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (45)
 
ShtLuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Actually shipping orders
Posts: 3,132
Trader Rating: 45 (100%+)
Default

never tried, i have only ever run a few bodies. i have sophias, giannas, crc gt86, eb1, kyosho mr-s, tamiya brz, tamiya capri, and some of the hpi stuff. i try to stick to scale race stuff.
ShtLuck is offline  
Old 10-29-2021, 11:20 AM
  #2213  
R/C Tech Elite Member
iTrader: (28)
 
hanulec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: @ the post office
Posts: 10,304
Trader Rating: 28 (100%+)
Default

What car are you running Keith? The Saxo? What track width is it?
hanulec is offline  
Old 10-29-2021, 12:55 PM
  #2214  
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 17
Default

hello I am French, since my last participation in Snowbirds, I discovered the WGTR and there are a few of us in my rolling club.
I am using a CRC and wanted to know how you go about having a 190mm rear width.
if you can put pictures of the rear axle, thanks in advance.
olivier78 is offline  
Old 10-29-2021, 01:44 PM
  #2215  
Tech Master
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Medina, Ohio
Posts: 1,883
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by olivier78
hello I am French, since my last participation in Snowbirds, I discovered the WGTR and there are a few of us in my rolling club.
I am using a CRC and wanted to know how you go about having a 190mm rear width.
if you can put pictures of the rear axle, thanks in advance.
There are a couple of thigs that can be done. A machinist friend of mine modified the rear slider to move the bearing on the diff side inward a couple of mm. I also had a couple of old rear axles that do not have a hub on the backside of the diff ring plate. A spool is easy so no explanation needed there.
One thing anyone can do is make a spacer out of 1/4" I.D. tubing and put the flange of the rear bearings on the inside of the bulkheads with the tubing between them to transfer loads. For a X-Ray gear diff there may be a new aftermarket hub in the future that moves the wheel inward. I am testing that now and could easily take the car into the low 180's with that. I will tell you that less than 188 isn't recommended.
I have let Dumper at CRC know that moving the bearings inward benefits the handling and made a suggestion to them for a small design change in the sliders. We will see.
old_dude is offline  
Old 10-29-2021, 02:26 PM
  #2216  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (45)
 
ShtLuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Actually shipping orders
Posts: 3,132
Trader Rating: 45 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by hanulec
What car are you running Keith? The Saxo? What track width is it?
honestly fj i havent measured it...lol
i just adjust it based on handling, most of the cars dont seem to fit under the akura though at the most narrow setting.
I realized none of my bodies are on the approved list after the fact for the classic, i always let our guys run under the rule that the race director has discretion if its a body that fits the spirit of the rules. as long as its a production based race car, 95g and it covers the tires i let them run it. it makes the class look cool and thats kind of the point of the class to me.
honestly the one that really bugged me prior to all this was the zoo body being approved, its kinda like p-zero in usgt all over again..... lol
ShtLuck is offline  
Old 10-29-2021, 06:42 PM
  #2217  
Tech Regular
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 434
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by hanulec
What car are you running Keith? The Saxo? What track width is it?
.

I am running a Roche P10 Evo.
MC Hamilton is offline  
Old 11-02-2021, 07:17 AM
  #2218  
Tech Rookie
 
JBM385's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 5
Default

Originally Posted by MC Hamilton
.

I am running a Roche P10 Evo.
The zoo body is very thin and requires a minimum for me to add 10 grams of lead. and fits the Roche well, soon trying a different body just to see how it fits and works.
JBM385 is offline  
Old 11-02-2021, 07:38 AM
  #2219  
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 10
Default

Originally Posted by JBM385
The zoo body is very thin and requires a minimum for me to add 10 grams of lead. and fits the Roche well, soon trying a different body just to see how it fits and works.
Tell us about the result please, I am curious to know as well.
keneltyler is offline  
Old 11-02-2021, 11:31 AM
  #2220  
Tech Adept
 
Sortafast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 128
Default

Originally Posted by ShtLuck
honestly fj i havent measured it...lol
i just adjust it based on handling, most of the cars dont seem to fit under the akura though at the most narrow setting.
I realized none of my bodies are on the approved list after the fact for the classic, i always let our guys run under the rule that the race director has discretion if its a body that fits the spirit of the rules. as long as its a production based race car, 95g and it covers the tires i let them run it. it makes the class look cool and thats kind of the point of the class to me.
honestly the one that really bugged me prior to all this was the zoo body being approved, its kinda like p-zero in usgt all over again..... lol
If it makes you feel any better, I tried the ZR1 after the HC (when I finally got a little time) and went faster with that then the Zoo body.

also that Akura body you’re not liking, is breaking up the sea of Zoo bodies. So there is that too..

Last edited by Sortafast; 11-02-2021 at 06:03 PM.
Sortafast is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.