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Old 10-30-2005, 06:41 PM   #16
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Thanks for your comments, no josh, i dont feel like an idiot, my post had the desired effect, to get some reaction. The reason is that i am trying to decide on cells for next year. This year I have been using matched/zapped GP3700's and GP3300 from various matchers including SMC. I have however been looking into some new cells from a supplier of non-matched (non matched in the sense of the way SMC etc do things) cells.

These cells are half the price of the top spec matched packs that i can get via SMC etc, therefore i can afford to replace them twice as often, which would mean every 3-4 months instead of 6 or 8.

My example is this:

A matcher and this other place buy cells at the same time, at this stage the cells are basically identical. The matcher then matchs them and i can buy the cells at 61 that are 1.195+/cell, or 50 for the 1.185-1.194/cell. From the other place i can get packs that are 1.185 to 1.195+/cell for 30 and the majority of cells will be 1.190+ anyway so the difference is probably no more than 0.005-0.01 of a volt, if that, they are grouped rather than matched, to make sure the cells will hold similar capacities by weighing the cells to the nearest 0.1g (sounded as mad to me as it does to you i am sure, but it seems to be a pretty good test as i have check capacity of grouped cells on my cycler) so they should not go off like some bulk assembied packs. By the time both packs are a few meetings old i would be very supprised if I could tell a huge difference. After 3 or 4 months i then buy some new cells, but the 'matched' cells still have upto 4 months left til i replace them. In those 4 months the cell batches are now pushing out higher figures, so the new cells are probably as good as the 'matched' cells were new, but the 'matched' cells are now not as good as that cos they have been used and they have lost the edge they had new and the zapping process has worn off, so my new cells have given me a power boost mid-season, and a more consistant quality of pack for the same price.

I am still un-decided on which to go for, but i am leaning towards the non-matched packs. I have compared new GP3700's with 4 month old GP3700's that were matched and zapped, and the new ones are better. I am not actually worried about capacity of cells as i barely use 1500mah's in the races i do during the summer, so its all about voltage.

I am currently trying some of the GP3300's from this place, for racing over the winter for 5 months, and i will be checking them regularly to see what sort of drop off in performance i am getting.

I was actually told about this by a rep from a distributor that sells matched packs, and also there is info about the reason behind all this on the website were i have bought some cells, www.nrgdynamics.co.uk. I am sure i will get plenty of replies saying just to use matched packs, as they are better, but i am just trying to be a little more open minded than that and questioning that maybe they are not always the right way to go for everyone.
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Old 10-30-2005, 07:27 PM   #17
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Your entitled to your opinion and this company can say they weigh the cells to group them but that doesn't mean they will have the same capacity.

Your also talking about GP cells which are typically presorted by GP then put into cases. IB doesn't sort any of its cells so there is a bigger spread within cells from the same case.

I'm not aware of prices in your area but our high end packs should have a 69.00 street price and our mid level packs should have a 46.00 street price. We do have cells that are lower than the mid level packs and they go into matched stick packs and regular stick packs.
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Old 10-30-2005, 07:57 PM   #18
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I didnt believe the weight thing either, but i have checked it out and it seems to work for as good as it is needed for these packs. I have a pack of IB3800 cells as well from them, i only mentioned GP, as i have some other cells to compare them with.

In the UK batteries are limited in price so the high end packs are 61 ($107) and the mid range packs are normally around 50 ($88). As you can see these are not cheap, which is why i am not really wanting to replace high end packs as often as they should be replaced to keep me in fresh cells. Hence why i was putting forward my point for using slighly lower price cells, which should be better than you low end packs and in the most as good as your mid range packs for a fraction of the price (30 or $53)
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Old 10-30-2005, 08:18 PM   #19
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I read through this companies website and they same to make to many to many claims about battery matching that are false. But then again everyone has their own opinion.

If you take our mid level matched pack it will perform and hold up better than 6 randomly assembled cells. They also claim that zapping goes away but in all our tests it's a permanent improvement to the cell.

In the end use what works best for you.
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Old 10-30-2005, 08:38 PM   #20
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Thanks for the reply Danny. Part of the reason for posting was to try and pick holes in what i have been led to believe. Its very easy to get led into thinking what someone wants you to think in order to make a sale. So you have to take on board what everyone says and try and make your own judgement. At the end of the day i will make the decision on what works best at the track over the winter. Unfortunatly i cant fund as much cell testing as i would like, so i need to try and narrow down the options before getting to that stage.

What is your optinion on cell life? Am i right in thinking that after about 4 months of use say every other weekend, with regular equalising, that a drop of in performance will be noticed? I know it depends on the type of cells to some extent, as i had some cells that i wont mention, that died very quickly after a fairly short period of time. They were top end matched packs as well.
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Old 10-30-2005, 08:47 PM   #21
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I think packs can hold there performance for a long period of time if they are properly taken care of especially if runtime isn't critical in your type of racing.

I have seen packs that are 6-8 months old and the average voltage and IR is still very good. I have gotten packs back after a major race and some of them had fallen off. So in the end proper care is the key.
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Old 10-30-2005, 09:04 PM   #22
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Well that would certainly help my pocket if i can make a set of cells last the season. A few questions though. I have had a quick look at your website, and it mentions the Integy 030, discharger. I have a Smart tray and a robitronic tray, which is better for the cells if either and why? I know the bloke at NRG doesnt like the active trays but didnt say why. Next it says about discharging at 30-35 amps, what will happen if i only discharge at 20amp, considering i am using a very low draw motor (Tamiya RS540 sport tuned). Last i know the IB3600 are lighter than the 3800's. With running these sport tuned motors we have very little torque and weight is almost as big a deal as punch. It says on your site the 3800's are the same for IR and Voltage as the 3600, but with more capacity. Is this still the case or have the 3800's moved on to be a stronger cell than the 3600's as well as having the extra run time?

If you dont wish to answer some of these questions publically, then you can email me, [email protected]

Thanks
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Old 10-30-2005, 09:20 PM   #23
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Forum fodder- I'm sorry if I left the impression that I meant YOU felt like an idiot. I was referring to the man that Danny sold the battery pack to because he felt it was immensely superior. I'm also a little curious about the IB3600's. They seem to be obsolete now that the 3800's are alive and kickin'.
-Josh
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Old 10-30-2005, 09:20 PM   #24
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The reason why I like the 0-30 tray is because of the clamp design which makes it real hard to get a bad contact and is very easy to use. I put my pack in the tray until the lights go out then start charging it after the lights go out. With the 0-30 this will take less than a minute if the pack was properly discharged down to 5.4 after it was used last.

I reccomend you use the tray that will bring down each cell to .90v as fast as possible prior to charging.

IB first came out with the 3600's and did tweak it some. They then released the 3800 and spent all there R&D on it and have made it a great cell. While tweaking the 3800 they didn't do as much work on the 3600. They have now applied the improvements made on the 3800s to the 3600s. We will be matching some up as soon as we get caught up on matching the 3800s. In your application I would go with the newer 3600 which will allow you to save a bit more money and the performance should be great.
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Old 10-30-2005, 09:26 PM   #25
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I would be interested in trying some of the newer 3600's cells. My big problem is firstly, CML may well only stock the 3800's as that is what they will sell most of, and secondly, as they have more drivers than microsoft, getting batteries from them will mean the best will almost certainly have gone. So am i able to deal direct with someone @ SMC? I would be interested in 1 or 2 packs as soon as the new 3600's are available and 3 or 4 packs by the spring, assuming i decide to use them.
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Old 10-30-2005, 09:30 PM   #26
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We should have our online shop online by the time the 3600s get matched. Just check back in from time to time. The price will be 44.95 so i'm not sure what that will work out to be with shipping and taxes.
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Old 10-30-2005, 09:50 PM   #27
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I know the taxes are pretty huge these days, think it is looking like about 33% of the total value including shipping, but at $45 it should still work out cheaper than UK cells.

Josh - No problems. I am used to taking a bit of flack from time to time, hence the name. Did go a bit far with that name a year or so ago thou, as i was getting reported in magazine race reports as it, and i was out in Holland for the Tamiya Eurocup finals last year, and was stopped by a random bloke who said "Its you, the guy from the forum". So i got some stickers made up and its now of the roof off every shell i run, although i actually get my real name used in the mags.
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