CraigF72

Hey thinking about buying the mid version if you have one can you provide some feedback as to how your car is going. I did read one of you was having pretty significant set up issues did you get them resolved. We run on a low grip asphelt want to make sure it's competitive before I invest
thanks

Airwave

iTrader: (1)

If you talk about me, I have indeed solved them. This is a conception issue. A member of my club (used to 1:5th cars) suspected that the problem can come from anti-roll bars. Standard mounting is making them parallel to the lower arms. Problem is that when you are running 5mm clearance, you can have bindings in the mechanism and the movement is not free. My solution was simply to add 0.5mm under the fixation screws, but only the two most on the inside, to create an angle.

The Teacher

iTrader: (62)

Airwave, did you do this on the front and the rear?

Airwave

iTrader: (1)

I did, but the marshmallow lower arms really seem to be a problem on 5 minutes. Consistency is not good.
This car really needs harder carbon parts and/or double upper arms (like Xpress or Awesomatix)

midse

iTrader: (8)

We are still in full lockdown here in Australia. So haven't tested mine on asphalt unfortunately. I've never encountered any of the problems you speak of on Asphalt when I borrowed friends T3M v1 conversions or my own FFV3. Very dialled cars that felt like I'd need to dial grip out. Start with Meatballs setup (petitrc) in the video paying attention to the lighter bars now used on asphalt and screw positions. Other than that try raising roll centres with .25 or Pitlane .5 to 1mm carbon shims. Rod sway bars do have inherent differentiation but mine don't bind (do need to check for binding/tweak whilst tightening assembly like any other component) For lower grip asphalt like here in Australia, try 3 degrees actual rear toe by gently applying light toe in pressure as you undo then tighten the rear hub carriers (2.5 deg) Check on accurate setup station like hudy for desired toe.

midse

iTrader: (8)

Not the arms, different chassis dynamics.
See Meatballs setup using less screws in rear bars - if too aggressive for your track try lighter bars.

Airwave

iTrader: (1)

This has nothing to do with the bars. I've tried all the thickness, and even without any bars.
That was also the problem with the plastic ones on the T2... Chinese manufacturers always do this error. If you don't have a rigid geometry, you can't have consistency. Even if you can handle such inconsistencies, a lot of energy is absorbed in these deformations and you lost a lot of cornet speed. And in this case we are really really far from something which could work. Just try to push the knuckles (in front or rear) to the rear, you can see the lower arms flex and even worse you can see the geometry change, toe-in is added, camber increases, etc.

And sorry but the solution of forcing the parts to deliver 3ｰ toe-in is just not acceptable. You have no idea how it could move during the race.

Does anybody know what is the angle used to fix the lower arms to the chassis? It seems to be a lot (like 5ｰ) and the I can't understand what it tried to achieve in front with a negative angle. About 100% of chassis are using 0 or positive values.

I will try to order the needed parts to have a proper upper-arms geometry and will see if it fixes the problem or not...

midse

iTrader: (8)

FFV3 Q2 position, incident on first lap dropped him to almost last. Huge corner speed and won the heat. Nothing wrong with FFV3 o-ring arms or geometry and likewise MTST3M.
This chassis is designed to optimise flex characteristics of the arms. Likewise Awesomatix stiff rigid arm style does not work on other chassis such as Xray. Do not be so easily convinced by marketing of other brands. Personally, my fastest and most consistent races on very high grip and low grip asphalt have been with the T2 standard arms - when many competitors told me it was inferior and a stupid designs. 5 years later, extreme adjustable flex, narrow battery position, lipo tape hooks are in vogue again. Every chassis can be setup to work competitively. Also, remember thay top competitive marketed chassis were 2.5 to 3mm thick and very very stiff.


ROAR National champion Julian Jimenez has won at least 3 events and several club races on debut with the T3M 20. His worst position using the chassis has been Q2 1st.

All brands geometry ( camber, toe, caster) can be tweaked after a collision. My FFV3 rear toe hasn't tweaked after a few collisions. Pitlane/RAB Hobbies offer a fixed 3 degree arm option. Prototype Active toe rear has won several events for FFV3.
2.5 3.0 3.5 adjustable arms MAY become available in the future. Personally I just prefer adjusting mine.

Here is Meatballs Youtube account.
All 17.5 istc wins since Cencal event are with MTS T3M 20.
It is a very consistent chassis.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=...k5ccJJo_RHMkWg

february

He raced with a MTS car and a Xray tshirt... strange mix.

Well, I had the T3M as Airwave, same problem on medium grip... Happy to know that we are only 2 average racers who had problems... But for me, it's just not acceptable.

midse

iTrader: (8)

Not strange at all. The T3M he is driving belongs to his godfather who has built 2 or 3 Roar nationals cars. Cencal race was very low grip. That setup sheet on petitrc should be a good base anywhwere. Pretty sure he is using the 1.4 bar on front and 1.2 bar on rear ( rear bar only has one screw and grub screw each side). His car at that race had 2.5 deg. rear tow where many others in all classes were using 3.5 deg for the very low grip.
You can raise the top deck with shims to suit the flex you like. As mentioned you can purchase Pitlane 3 deg. fixed arms if you like. Personally , I prefer encouraging rear arms to required toe setting and checking on a hudy setup station. No difference to setting rear toe with Active Toe System.
Enjoy.

Airwave

iTrader: (1)

I think I would prefer to use a real ARS setup, with front lower arms in the rear, but I'm not sure that the 8ｰ of kingpin will be a good idea there...

I'm not convinced by marketing, I'm just faster and more consistent with my X20...

By the way I have no idea who Julian Jimenez is and what ROAR champion means. If it was in 17.5 blinky against 12 other drivers, it is not really comparable to my situation, especially in term of power...

midse

iTrader: (8)

ROAR is USA/Canada RC Governing body since 1967 and 1/4 of world governing body IFMAR . Meatball is current USA ROAR Champion.
Many succesful ideas and concepts of every manufacturer in the past including Serpent' were ridiculed by the sceptics. Continue racing with your X20 , I never try to convince anyone to change brands. Nor do I comment on products I've never competed with.
Masaaki HIROSAKA is the japanese distributor of Race Opt and his son Masaami has been testing the chassis. Historically, they have designed,built and raced rc cars to more World and National titles in all disciplines of Electric racing.

ラジコン世界チャンピオンメカニック ひろさか

ラジコン世界チャンピオンメカニック ひろさか

ラジコン世界チャンピオンメカニック ひろさか

Airwave

iTrader: (1)

I knew what ROAR is but as you say it is only 1/4 of the world and probably a lot less in term of touring racers... I tried to look for Julian Jimenez results and what I mean is that, even if it is a very good driver, I only found he is using the car with a 21.5 brushless motor. So 21.5 blinky is absolutely nowhere comparable to 13.5 open. The applied forces are ridiculously different, that's all.

About the Hirosaka family, you were talking about marketing... Having his father distributing the car does not mean Masami would use it in world-level races... I can only admire what Masami achieved, but I have no idea about who his father is...

midse

iTrader: (8)

Ars Definitely works- still prototype testing. Covid.
Click on the link to a video from TITC- Watch how dialled Gamee multiple event winning FFV3 using ARS is . Q2 Pale pink car.
Just like the FFV1-FFV2 It has won and podium at many events. T3M has been designed with combined concepts such as KPI learnt from FF platform, the T2 and T2.5.
Not all manufacturers have won TITC or even Bmain at IFMAR Worlds.

Masaaki was a champion motorcycle racer and designer for ABC - Yokomo and built most of Masami's Winning cars. Many features of all RC cars have evolved from concepts he designed. On road, pan cars 1/12 Pro 10 200mm, touring,Off road 2wd, 4wd . Etc etc. Masami has released a series of ebooks about his expeiences. Very interesting.

Thank you for your feedback.

Marcos.J

iTrader: (239)

ARS from the T2 5minutes with Dremel worked great 2 years ago