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Fantom Works vs Trinity Certified

Fantom Works vs Trinity Certified

Old 06-28-2015, 02:45 AM
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Default Fantom Works vs Trinity Certified

Hi all, I am almost certain there would be a thread about this but i've been looking for a while now and just can't seem to find it...

I am looking to get a new motor and am choosing between trinity certified or the fantom works.

Fantom's website doesn't seem to mention anything about certified motors so i assume they're all just base D4's with the option of shimming and better rotors etc? Am I correct in assuming that all the fantom stators are pretty similar, and generally not as good as the certified trinity ones?

Thanks
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Old 06-28-2015, 10:19 AM
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the certified motors are the top 5% from each batch they test. With that being the case, the top 5% of batch B could be worse than the worst of (the last checked) batch A.. when B is tested. Every single rotor/stator tested in batch C could be better than the (certified) best of batch B. It can just go in circles. Does buying certified mean you're probably going to be getting a decent motor? Sure. Is it a guarantee that it's the best of the best, and better than any other motor you'd buy off the shelf? No. It's really always a crapshoot on some level.

Fantom sells custom motors, with countless add-on/upgrade options... a lot of the things they nickel and dime you on may already be being done by other tuners/resellers without added charge (free plug here for EA Motorsports .) There's nothing really *wrong* with either option, but it's often money better spent elsewhere.

Buy a new motor, if you can... used motors from strangers are buyer beware always, unless you know and trust the seller. With that being said, you'll gain more from correctly finding the timing/gearing for your particular motor than you will spending $150 for a 'better' motor that may end up geared wrong. People chase (battery/rotor/stator/etc.) numbers in this hobby, which is fine - but that doesn't automatically make you faster. The biggest gains are often free - more practice = better setup = faster times. It doesn't make a bit of difference how fast you are if you can't get through a corner cleanly. Gear for your track, don't simply try to max out the motor temp (and/or timing) as you often see being mentioned here, and when you can turn a couple dozen laps within a tenth or two on the clock, and you think your setup is good... that's when I'd start looking at motor gains.
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Old 06-29-2015, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by nitro_cortex View Post
Hi all, I am almost certain there would be a thread about this but i've been looking for a while now and just can't seem to find it...

I am looking to get a new motor and am choosing between trinity certified or the fantom works.

Fantom's website doesn't seem to mention anything about certified motors so i assume they're all just base D4's with the option of shimming and better rotors etc? Am I correct in assuming that all the fantom stators are pretty similar, and generally not as good as the certified trinity ones?

Thanks
Every option on Fantom is $129 and Trinity usually near $150.
Fantom offers ceramic bearings with their motor which is biggest difference plus if you signup for Fantoms email list you can save 10% on initial order. Either one you buy the Trinity D4 will be fast. Yes, I'm sponsored by Fantom but $20 cheaper and ceramic bearings is hard to beat. EAmotorsports is another very good option
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Old 06-29-2015, 04:16 AM
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thanks for opinion so far guys, but has anybody used both and can make a comment on the performance of each?
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Old 06-29-2015, 10:01 AM
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You cannot make a blanket statement that a motor from one or the other will always be bettter, too much variation and variables in motors.
the Fantom motors are better prepped, shimmed better bearings etc
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Old 06-29-2015, 03:45 PM
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If you are looking for a D4 based motor: you can't go wrong with EA or Fantom. You are guaranteed a good motor.
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Old 06-29-2015, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JayL View Post
You cannot make a blanket statement that a motor from one or the other will always be bettter, too much variation and variables in motors.
the Fantom motors are better prepped, shimmed better bearings etc
Yep. All good things - and not super expensive changes either which is good.

The major difference I presume is the trinity certified stuff "has" the best of the stators whereas its pot luck with Fantom?

Fantom you can request rotor spec, but not stator.

But does the stator matter as much anyway?
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Old 06-29-2015, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by cplus View Post

But does the stator matter as much anyway?
From my experience probably a little more than the rotor depending on application,

I run on usually bigger outdoor tracks and one of the best motors I have built was a D4 with a 5% stator in it, using the standard HT rotor, and shimmed correctly.
My Motor analyser was the best investment I made, as you can make changes and see the results straight away. Especially with shimming and sensor boards.

On the Orca TX in my F1 I made just under 1000rpm just by playing with sensor boards and shimming correctly.

It helps to have a few handy
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Old 06-29-2015, 06:18 PM
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Can you define "shimmed correctly" Beth?

Both my D4 and D41S have three small brass shims from new - not sure if all same size?
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Old 06-29-2015, 06:48 PM
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I have had many motor way too tight when out of the box, and ill play with a motor so the rotor sits a little better in the magnetic field of the stator as well as being not close or far away from the sensor, ill probably spend a few hours just testing tolerances with each motor to get a few extra RPM (yep I know I have way too much time on my hands) If only I spend as much time on my driving

The problem is there is just that much variation in parts coming out from china, which is why this 5% stuff exists in the first place.
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Old 06-29-2015, 06:57 PM
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Can't go wrong with Jeff aka fantom racing, he's built me 4 or 5 motors in the last few years and I've been pleased every time with great running motors. Plus the customer service can't be beat!
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Old 06-29-2015, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by nitro_cortex View Post
thanks for opinion so far guys, but has anybody used both and can make a comment on the performance of each?
In 17.5's I do have all three, if we include the EA motor. Each one is slightly different with final timing and within a tooth or so of gear, on the clock they're fairly interchangeable. Biggest difference? With Trinity, you're a number. With the Fantom, meh.. it's Fantom. With EA, you talk to Eric. Customer service goes a long way sometimes, EA for the win. My motor from EA did come with ceramics (just ask,) and was the cheapest of the three.

As a wildcard entry, in 21.5... I've gone through three D4's that can't touch my R1 motor from last year that keeps ending up back in the car.

If you're asking these questions.. you won't go wrong with any of the choices mentioned... pick one, and have fun.
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Old 06-29-2015, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by evochick View Post
The problem is there is just that much variation in parts coming out from china, which is why this 5% stuff exists in the first place.
Nononononono... brushless technology was supposed to eliminate that.
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Old 06-29-2015, 11:49 PM
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Go with a motor from EA Motorsports.
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Old 06-30-2015, 07:04 AM
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Default what does ea motor sports even do with the d4

The website says they tear down, inspect and record numbers. Doesn't sound like anything that would help it over a regular d4.
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