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Old 10-21-2005, 06:13 PM   #91
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Yes I know the throttle is not a switch, I am our current 4wd mod off road champ and 2nd in 2wd, so I know a little about throttle control.
When you run at a track (onroad) with 20-21sec lap times and at flat out for at least half a lap, runtime becomes an issue.
As I said, we are racers and we will push the limits on everything if at all possible to win, otherwise why bother?
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Old 10-21-2005, 06:19 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caveman
According to Oscar, Hara's car had more than 300mah left in his battery after he won the US Roar nat last year, and they were running 10T motor.
Yes and i'm sure his batteries were only average ones that any club racer can buy.

The trouble with extending races is it becomes a huuuge batery war, in modified anyway.

How is Hara going to make runtime if you extend the race even by a minute? I can see MAYBE 10% left in his batteries and you want to make the races how much longer?
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Old 10-21-2005, 06:31 PM   #93
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I still don't get it. While people are running 7T mod 5min with 3300mah battery, why it is so difficult to make 6min with 12T?
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Old 10-21-2005, 06:46 PM   #94
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I think many of the people on here never raced in the era before 2000mah plus cell came to life. I totally remember the days of 1500s and 1700s when i first got into the hobby. I remember getting beat by battereis. All the time. Run time was the number one issue when setting up your car. IT was fustrating to gear down on my low end packs when u needed to gear up to keep up to joe battery sponsor. Today at current run times joe newbie can race with confidence knowing he is not going to dump. More time can be spent driving and gearing for on track performance instead of run time. When 2400s hit the market i would say that is when i started to really enjoy racing. Finally the run time of batteries was starting to surpass what we needed to race without dumping. Once 3000's came stock racers could honestly gear to the moon and forget about dumping. You could abuse the motor and pack all u wanted you where not going to dump. Now with 3300 and 3800s you have great batteries with load of run time and loads of voltage. For club racers the need to get the highest dollar pack is not needed.

I think adding 1 minute to all classes would not be unreasonable but if you push run times to far you could make todays 3800s feel like yesterdays 1700-2000 packs. And thats where the battery wars get out of control.

Yaya gear down. gear down. Thats what i used to here when i got started.... Back then the batteries sucked today they dont. The last thing i want to pass on to new racers is "gear down boy or your gonna dump!"
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Old 10-21-2005, 06:48 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caveman
I still don't get it. While people are running 7T mod 5min with 3300mah battery, why it is so difficult to make 6min with 12T?
At my local track we run 12T, 6.5 - 6.7 overall ratio, for a rollout of around 30mm. 18-24 degrees of timing, therefore, runtime is an issue.

These things are fast, we are generally going faster with these 12T than we were with open motors. Really easy to drive through the infield and you can hassle nitro cars down the straight.

Think of it as 19T on steroids....at a lot of recent races some of the 19T drivers would have placed in the open mod field.

Back to the point.
Here anyway, at present, we have a good balance. With 3700 batteries the runtime issue should not exist even for those not spending a fortune on batteries. Therefore I am all for leaving it as is at the moment, in the near future I can see races being extended, brushless motors 3900-4200 cells etc..., are you sure now is the right time?
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Old 10-21-2005, 07:07 PM   #96
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With the IB vs GP war going on(also, the power tools industry wants higher capacity cells too) it won't take long to see 4000mah+.
Another point, if 12T in general is faster than open mod(7-8T), people will use 12T in open mod instead of 7T motor.
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Old 10-21-2005, 08:21 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottrik
If the intent of your scheme was to save time on race days you've just had an Apollo 13-style setback.

Scottrik
Now how do you get saving time on race day when its actually longer by 30 minutes?

The intent was captured in the last summary sentence, "An extra half hour is worth it for a more forgiving, rewarding and satisfying day of racing with much more of a potential to come from behind and smoke your doubters. "

Interesting choice of word though...

scheme (skEm) n. - A secret or devious plan; a plot.
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Old 10-21-2005, 09:18 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caveman
According to Oscar, Hara's car had more than 300mah left in his battery after he won the US Roar nat last year, and they were running 10T motor.
OK lets do some math here, Hara used 3300's right? Ok he started wit minimum 3300mah in his battery, in a 5 minute race he used approx 3000mah with a 10 turn, that is almost 600mah a minute, he had only 300mah left so he had about 30 seconds(600/300*60second) of battery left with a 10 turn? How would he have made a 6 minute race?

I also love how people say gear down(larger spur and smaller pinion), but has nyone ever heard of undergeared? It burns motors up just as fast as overgearing. If you don't believe me, got up on your spur 3 or 4 teeth and down on your pinion 2 or 3 teeth and see how your motor turns out temp wise.
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Old 10-21-2005, 09:51 PM   #99
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Oh yea, If you can empty a 3300mah pack with a 12T mod in 4 1/2 min, gear down will help you at all.
I just wonder why Hara won the race with plenty of power to spare while someone dumped with 30 sec to go. Oh......... I know they must forget to charge their packs, right?
We are in the 3700-3800mah era, if that race were to repeat, Hara will have 700-800mah left, enough to go another minute.
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Old 10-21-2005, 09:55 PM   #100
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Sorry mistype, I mean gear down WON"T help you at all.
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Old 10-21-2005, 10:17 PM   #101
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Hey fellow racers, I'm all for adding another minute or so to the current standard of 5 minute races. Whatever additional wear and tear on equipment(if any) is well worth that extra minute I could race with my friends anytime. It seems to me that in the longer races the skilled racers usually prevail over the "Big Money" racers-as it should be. I have genuine respect for the racer(s) that beat me because they drove better than I did in a race. But I can't say that when I get beaten by money-then I'm frustrated and disapointed, kind of feels like being cheated. My point is that making the race a little longer can only be more fun. I dabble in offroad nitro primarily because of the track time it offers. Win or lose, I'm having fun! Besides, the lesser drivers are usually out of the race before ten minutes has gone by. My local track has been running a six minute class for a few years now and that is where I like to race. Sometimes they run an enduro race and I always want to be in on that. We ran an eight-hour TL-01 race last time- what a blast! Just my 2 cents.
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Old 10-21-2005, 10:22 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caveman
With the IB vs GP war going on(also, the power tools industry wants higher capacity cells too) it won't take long to see 4000mah+.
Another point, if 12T in general is faster than open mod(7-8T), people will use 12T in open mod instead of 7T motor.
We run 12T because it is the limit in our rules.
All I said is that we are going faster NOW than we WERE going with open motors.
You can interpret or twist that in any way you like.
I don't have a problem with longer races, I also run nitro which is a real endurance style of racing, pit stops and all.
Electric IS sprint racing. If it isn't decided after 5 minutes, how long do you want? Why don't we all just say 10 minutes, hell we can just gear down for the moment and go at snails pace, the batteries will catch up soon!!!
I'm quite happy with my 5 minutes of madness
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Old 10-21-2005, 10:29 PM   #103
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UNSTABLE,
I don't want to offend you or anyone, if you feel that way, please acept my apology.
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Old 10-21-2005, 10:48 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caveman
UNSTABLE,
I don't want to offend you or anyone, if you feel that way, please acept my apology.
Hey no worries
I get a bit fiesty when debating topics like this, tact is not my strong point, so likewise don't take anything to heart.
R/C is a passion that everyone on this forum shares, and sometimes it is hard to judge peoples attitudes from written words.

I don't blame you or anyone for wanting longer races. The thing I hear regularly at our tracks, and I'm sure everywhere is the issues of cost. The thing that I don't want to see creep in (even more so) is battery dependancy. This is only really an issue for Mod racers, but at a local level this will hopefully stabilise a little with the higher capacity batteries available now.
There is a club over here who at their track have been running 19T at 6min.
O.K., but I can guarantee at the next AGM this issue will be brought up, and next thing you know this will be in the rule book.
The next step is apply it to all classes........guess what happens.
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Old 10-22-2005, 10:04 AM   #105
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Mc Smooth- If you remember I started preaching to the racers a year before you and your dad started it again. It ran one year(in our state series) before ROAR saw what the results were and adopted it from 4-5 minutes for 1/10th scale.It needs to start and the club and series level of racing. Mandating it from either the ballot(with racers not voting and low results) or from the Ex committee is not the way to get this going.
There is alway 1/12th it races 8 minutes .We did this with 1200 batteries and wiper arms! Now we do it with 4 cells-3300's and a ESC.Now 3800's are here and Li-po's are just around the corner.This discussion will never die.........
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