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Old 10-20-2005, 07:06 PM   #76
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Default I'm for longer heats

and I run brushed/stock.

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Old 10-20-2005, 08:05 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Thomas
I am just curious, how many people here who want longer race lengths already run brushless and which ones still run brushed motors?

I run 100% brushed motors and ESC's yet still want longer races.
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Old 10-20-2005, 08:12 PM   #78
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Brushed stock & 19Turn, (5 MIN NO MORE, NO LESS!!!)
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Old 10-20-2005, 08:16 PM   #79
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I run brushed and will be switching to brushless next season and do not want to change from 5 minutes.
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Old 10-21-2005, 03:35 AM   #80
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I run brushed with 3300 batteries and I want longer races.
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Old 10-21-2005, 05:52 AM   #81
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I run stock w/ 3300s and run mod brushless. I would like to see the races go to 6 or 7 minutes.
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Old 10-21-2005, 07:41 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soviet
I run 100% brushed motors and ESC's yet still want longer races.
Same here. Although I am eyeing the GTB combo.
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Old 10-21-2005, 10:21 AM   #83
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Here's a looonnng thought and a bit of ranting and raving...

I like the idea of 6:30 minute mains and four 3 minute IFMAR qualifiers with each driverís grid position being set by the average of the top half of their fastest laps out of all four qualifiers. There would have to be a minimum number of laps counted for all drivers that would be equal to at least half the amount of the total laps counted by any driver. This would be needed to make sure the top drivers don't get a few fast laps in and then sit out of the rest of qualifying so as not to hurt their average. And anyone who doesn't complete these minimum number of laps during all four qualifying rounds, should have 1 second added to their average lap time. If a driver can't (or doesn't want to) start three qualifiers, and finish a little more than two of them, then maybe they deserve to be in a lower main and wait till next week for a better result. The top two of each lower main should get bumped up only once to the next higher main for an added bonus of more track time and also the possibility of making up for an unusually bad, but not completely ruined, day of qualifying. Have you ever seen someone actually lap the entire field of their lower main and post better race times than half the field in the next higher main?

I don't particularly like having to be careful for an entire 5 minutes in qualifying and not push myself and the car (not others) in order to try and improve my lines and lap times. But if we had 32 to 80 chances (8 to 20 laps per qualifier, depending on track size) to get 16 to 40 good laps, it would encourage drivers to space out more during qualifying, be courteous for those passing, and actually reach their true potential of speed. With keeping multiple driver IFMAR qualifiers using an average of the fastest top half laps, rather than using the single driver and/or fastest lap method, this would avoid one lap wonder motors and such as well. Furthermore, it would be more interesting and less chaotic in qualifying to see people pushing themselves for fast laps, rather than pushing each other to the point of arguing and even leaving the sport altogether.

Again, having shorter qualifiers with more emphasis on how well you do throughout all four would increase the likelihood of each driver rising to their potential. The only downside I see is maybe something concerning batteries. But all anyone really needs is three packs, two to rotate through qualifying and one for the main. Those drivers who will use the open track breaks for testing are normally not beginners and should already have a fourth pack ready and charged before race day for test runs.

Do we really need 8 minute breaks between qualifying heats? For those drivers who are habitually late to the stand after the 8 minute break, the problem is more likely personal and they would continue to be late if it were 10 or even 15 minutes. It shouldn't take anymore than 5 minutes for all drivers to tech their cars, burn off the slick tires, take their places on the stand and get their cars into position for the start. If you're late for one, you have three other opportunities and you still will get placed in the mains based on the top half of your lap times. Anyone ever had your best qualifying lap times during most but not all of one qualifier, only to have the entire run ruined somehow before you finish the 5 minutes? Problem solved.

I would also like to see more open track time given to the more experienced upper main drivers in order to make and test changes in preparation for their mains. Again, this is aimed at making the mains more competitive and also forgiving to those who may have gotten their cars mangled in qualifying, whether its their fault or not. We've all have bad days right? Don't lie now! Beginning drivers really should be focusing on getting to the track early and practicing before the qualifiers, staying late for practice after the mains (and getting help from the experienced drivers), or coming on a weekday if it is an option.

Finally, an additional 90s for the mains would keep every driver focused and hungry for the win, even after they have made a mistake or two. I'm sure that there would be an increase in the competitiveness of each mains last few laps as well.

For club racing I propose:

Currently 3 qualifiers and 1 main @ 300s = 1200s of track time for all.

A proposal of 4 qualifiers @ 180s and 1 to 2 mains @ 390s = 1110s (for all) and 1500s for bump ups.

Current Schedule Breakdown for 24 drivers:

Time needed for each round of qualifying:

Time.....Reason
--------------------------------------
5m.......1st heat (8 drivers)
8m.......break (closed track)
5m.......2nd heat (8 drivers)
8m.......break (closed track)
5m.......3rd heat (8 drivers)
30m......break (OPEN track)
---------
61m......Total time for each qualifying round

Time needed for the mains:

Time.....Reason
--------------------------------------
5m.......C main (8 drivers)
8m.......break (closed track)
5m.......B main (8 drivers)
8m.......break (closed track)
5m.......A main (8 drivers)
---------
31m......Total time for the mains

Time needed for race day:

Time.....Reason
--------------------------------------
61m......1st qualifying round
61m......2nd qualifying round
91m......3rd qualifying round with an extra 30 minutes for the break, with open track, before the mains
31m......mains
---------
244m.....Total time for the race day is approximately 4 hours and 4 minutes)

Proposed Schedule Breakdown for 24 drivers:

Time needed for each round of qualifying:

Time.....Reason
--------------------------------------
3m.......1st heat (8 drivers, with all "beginner" drivers in order to give them the most amount of break time before the lowest main)
5m.......break (closed track)
3m.......2nd heat (8 drivers)
5m.......break (closed track)
3m.......3rd heat (8 drivers)
30m......break (OPEN track)
---------
49m......Total time for each qualifying round

Time needed for the mains:

Time.....Reason
--------------------------------------
6.5m.....C main (8 drivers)
30m......break (OPEN track with more time for bump ups to prepare and charge)
6.5m.....B main (10 drivers)
30m......break (OPEN track with more time for bump ups to prepare and charge)
6.5m.....A main (10 drivers)
---------
79.5m....Total time for the mains

Time needed for race day:

Time.....Reason
--------------------------------------
49m......1st qualifying round
49m......2nd qualifying round
49m......3rd qualifying round
49m......4th qualifying round without the extra 30 minutes for the break
79.5m....mains
---------
275.5m...Total time for the race day is approximately 4 hours and 36 minutes.

An extra half hour is worth it for a more forgiving, rewarding and satisfying day of racing with much more of a potential to come from behind and smoke your doubters.

DISCLAIMER: I'm sure I've missed something in there, but by all means criticize. Flame on!!!
.
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Last edited by teamgp; 10-21-2005 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 10-21-2005, 11:47 AM   #84
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The first con I received, via phone, involves the software. I'm not sure the current race sofware would be able to accomodate something like this. Race directors would probably have to use a calculator and printouts to figure out the grids and then manually enter them in.
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Old 10-21-2005, 01:23 PM   #85
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Race directors would probably have to use a calculator and printouts to figure out the grids and then manually enter them in.
No problem Sammy Scorer, you just keep figuring those heats out...we really didn't need any sleep before we head to work in the morning...

I can see it now, Gerry pushing the buttons to score laps on his Atari 400 computer at TRCR...Great, no we're back to 1986.

If the intent of your scheme was to save time on race days you've just had an Apollo 13-style setback.

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Old 10-21-2005, 05:32 PM   #86
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My view from New Zealand:
We only changed to 5 min. races a couple of years ago, and it nearly killed mod racing nationwide. Asking a motor to run for 20% loger was a recipie for disaster, we were down to effectively one run motors, and at a club level it was all a bit much for most people.
We are now seeing a return to mod racing being popular , due in no small part to our 12T motor limit and the advent of new long lasting brushes.
However extending the races in this part of the world would be another blow we really don't need. Even with the 12T limit we were struggling to make 5min races, and even 4min indoor on carpet ( we must run our motors pretty hard over here ).
This year with 3700's etc it will be a little more comfortable, but I wouldn't personally want to run for any longer.
I realise this has no bearing on the world scale of things, but eventually what happens overseas filters through here, and the unfortunate thing about forums like this is that now it happens faster. That's progress for ya .
I'm sure race lengths will be adjusted at some point, I just hope it is not too soon.
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Old 10-21-2005, 05:39 PM   #87
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I realise this has no bearing on the world scale of things, but eventually what happens overseas filters through here,
Including, I'm sure, knowledge that there are larger spur gears and smaller pinions...

I'll be first to admit, I've got zero experience with mod TC racing other than as an interested observer. AND, it is the only class where I've seen cars dumping prior to five minutes...a condition usually remedied for the next heat by making other setup changes.

I wouldn't presume to offer (or even vote on) changes for a class I don't run in, but I'm 100% FOR lengthening heats for stock-based classes. Even 7 minutes is easily attainable with pretty mediocre batteries (I did it last weekend) and the same gearing I used for 5-minutes as I had been at the limit of what the motor would push around the track without overheating.

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Old 10-21-2005, 05:48 PM   #88
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Including, I'm sure, knowledge that there are larger spur gears and smaller pinions...


Too true.... However we are racers.... MUST GO FASTER MUST GO FASTER

You aren't racing hard enough if you still have battery power at the end of a heat .
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Old 10-21-2005, 06:04 PM   #89
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Come on, again the same arguement, struggle to make 5min. The throttle is not an on-off switch, please. Back to the day when the best battery is sanyo 2000, people are running 10-12T mod in touring car, and we can make 5min, no problem. Now with 3300mah or more, 12T motor limit, you can't make 5min!!! Yea yea, well I saw that a few times in LRP master, there were people dumped at 4 1/2 min while the winner had power to spare. I suppose even when battery has 5000mah, some people still struggle to make 5min.
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Old 10-21-2005, 06:10 PM   #90
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According to Oscar, Hara's car had more than 300mah left in his battery after he won the US Roar nat last year, and they were running 10T motor.
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