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Old 10-08-2005, 04:08 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Joel Lagace
The high prices would be easier to swallow if you knew that the model u just spurged on would have a shelf life longer then 6-12months!!! I am so glad i do not try to run tamiya as i would be seriously discouraged by now. They have released more top end cars in the last 2 years then most companies have in the last 10years!!! So to drop 400-500$ on a tamiya and find out 6months later the 415v6.2-msx-u-sucka-buy-more comes out you feel u got to upgrade! (even though u dont)
Sorry but that is a load of bull....

in the last 2 years...
415... 415MS... and only recently the MSX

All of thoose cars are competitive, hell even MarcR basically uses an Original 415 on indoor carpet!!!!

I've been running my std 415 for well over a year now (well before the 04 world champs), and only recently felt the need to upgrade to the MSX

Ed
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Old 10-08-2005, 04:15 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by ApexSpeed
I completely disagree with that statement. The "mid-range" kits are out there, but how many of them do you see at the race track every weekend?

Touring cars: (prices from Stormer Hobbies, found in about 10 seconds)

Team Losi XXX-s Graphite Plus: $189.95
Associated Team TC4: $209.95
X-Ray T1Raycer: $242.95
Yokomo MR4TC: $269.95
HPI Pro4: $289.95

I'm sure there are plenty more out there, too. Are they be-all, end-all top of the line technology? No, but all more than capable race cars for anyone but the top 1% drivers of the world. Some REALLY fast guys are still running with TC3s and kicking but with cars you can buy second hand for less than $100. No one is forcing you to buy a $450 race kit.
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Old 10-08-2005, 04:16 PM   #33
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I have David Jun's Tamiya on eBay (starts at 6:00 CST tonight). It is almost ready to run. Get a world class car completely set up by a pro.
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Old 10-08-2005, 04:46 PM   #34
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I for one am glad that touring car kits cost more now than they did 2-3 years ago. I think Xray really started something when they opted to release a no-holds-barred kit from the start, and not mess around with 'factory team' or 'graphite plus' etc, editions.

Everyone buying a XXX-S when it first came out knew they would have to spend hundreds of dollars on graphite components, aluminum roll center blocks, threaded shocks, etc. The same holds true for the majority of touring cars until about 2 years ago. The mentality was that the basic kit would be released, people would spend over $300 on upgrades, then the 'factory team' or 'graphite plus' edition would be released, and would cover most of the most common upgrades.

Not only do touring cars nowadays include so many parts that previously would have been considered hop-ups, they are far more refined. Tamiya's top of the line TC kits for the past 3 or 4 years have been top of the line and very precise. Once Xray jumped on that bandwagon, anyone who tried to half-ass the quality of their kit was left behind, as Associated found out with their TC4.

Quality doesn't just mean that the car is easier to work on and looks better either. A 'luxury touring car' is so much more consistent than the molded tub cars of the past. The quality just wasn't there in many cars 3-4 years ago for all suspension changes to be felt like they should. On top of that, a higher priced, better quality kit has a much better chance of driving the same every time you put the car on the track, and not changing from run to run.

ApexSpeed pointed out that there are plenty of options out there for someone not looking to spend in excess of $300. Not only that, but today's cars are so much better built, that a used Xray, Corally, Tamiya, etc, should still be in excellent condition and perfectly capable of winning races. I don't think it is true that the added cost can only be felt by the top 1% of drivers. I think any club racer can appreciate the improved tuning ability and consistency of a higher quality car.

Josh
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Old 10-08-2005, 04:57 PM   #35
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i think its all in your heads
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Old 10-08-2005, 05:06 PM   #36
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Well spoken, Josh, though I didn't exactly say that only the top 1% of drivers could appreciate a top-shelf car. What I did say that most cars out there that are not of the "new luxury tourer of the week" variety will be fine long-term for everyone except that top 1% factory driver looking to constantly shave hundreths of a second from lap times. There will always be improvements in technology, however, we all don't need to go buy the next newest car every time one is released.

There are plenty of older, more inexpensive cars out there still very capable of winning races every weekend.

I do agree though, that being able to buy a kit that is race-ready right out of the box is a very refreshing option in the R/C world. It was one of my main factors in purchasing an RDX, regardless of the sticker price.


Great discussion...

Oh yeah, for those of you who think that R/C racing is too expensive, you guys should try to put a real race car on the track once. I filled my workshop this fall with everything from chargers, to batteries and motors, as well as a high-end race car, for the cost of one new set of race tires and a weekend of racing in SCCA amateur sports car racing. I gave that up two years ago, and now, instead of $250 race entries, $750 sets of tires and $80 of race gas every weekend (not even including tow vehicle gas, food and lodging), I can spend that same amount and race for an entire season.

Or try this one... you could buy 11 Corally RDXs for the cost of one winter's engine rebuild in a Formula Continental or Formula Ford. "Hmmmm, I think I'll take two or three of those $40 stock motors, please."
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Old 10-08-2005, 05:08 PM   #37
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I would rather buy one "luxury" touring car per year vs. the 3 to 4 offroad cars I was going through every year in the the early 90's.
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Old 10-08-2005, 05:18 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TryHard
Sorry but that is a load of bull....

in the last 2 years...
415... 415MS... and only recently the MSX

Ed

Hey dont want to start a brand war. But thats 3 belted cars in 2 years. Dont forget the shaft cars. Evo3, evo3surikarn and now evo4 and no doubt that will come with as a new version soon..

Anyway im sorry for bring up tamiyas. Tamiya is great all kinds of love to tamiya.....

My point was that for many people out there that feel things are expencive they see the constant flood of new cars coming out from all major brands each one claiming to out do everone elses car including there own latest models. For some there is a preseption that if you dont buy you wont fly. Older racers know this is not true at the club level. There is no reason you cant race a car for years.

For the record i dont find the cars overpriced. You do get what you pay for. And my luxury touring car was money well spent.
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Old 10-08-2005, 07:35 PM   #39
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like i said earlier people will bitch either way, if companies didnt do jack, they would bitch about there plastic heavy cars with spider diffs.

as far as tamiya goes, they come out with new cars every couple of seasons, all the evo,s are exactly how they sound evolution of each other, as are the 415's you can turn a base 415 into a msx simply buying hop ups!!!

and as far as xray stepping up, i thing it was tamiya that started this whole tc craze long befor even the original 414x back in late 2000.
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Old 10-08-2005, 08:10 PM   #40
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I was just saying that the prices seem expensive because last year a 'luxury' car would cost $330 at most!! Now they are costing about $380-$400, and then there are some for $450.

But hose cars are NO BETTER than those of last year. for that $70 or more increase, i could have a new servo, or motor! Something that would definately improve the car.
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Old 10-08-2005, 08:20 PM   #41
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then buy a last year car and buy a motor!
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Old 10-08-2005, 08:34 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odawg315
like i said earlier people will bitch either way, if companies didnt do jack, they would bitch about there plastic heavy cars with spider diffs.

as far as tamiya goes, they come out with new cars every couple of seasons, all the evo,s are exactly how they sound evolution of each other, as are the 415's you can turn a base 415 into a msx simply buying hop ups!!!

and as far as xray stepping up, i thing it was tamiya that started this whole tc craze long befor even the original 414x back in late 2000.
Tamiya made ther first CF car in early 2000. but they were not the forefather of the deck CF cars. yokomo had a cf car around 93 or 94 also express made a CF car in the mid to late 90s ( which looked alot like the xray t1 line ). Losi had the street weapon and in 99 AE brought out the TC3.(but those were not of CF design)
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Old 10-08-2005, 08:50 PM   #43
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It's interesting how many people here justify spending $300-$400 on a kit. It's like buying a BMW and saying it's not an expensive car. Remember this class started out in parking lots with $150 Tamiya kits. One of the reason for it's existence was because it was cheap to race when pan cars ruled the tracks. But now with kits costing twice as much I don't think this class will survive in the next couple of years. Not everyone can afford a $350 something car and still have enough to buy tires, batteries, motors, and spare parts to race.
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Old 10-08-2005, 08:58 PM   #44
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actually, bmw's arnt expensive anymore when you consider you can buy a 3 series for less than a caddilac!
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Old 10-08-2005, 08:59 PM   #45
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of course everyone cant...thats why they buy the used stuff from people that CAN afford it
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