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Old 09-26-2005, 10:12 PM   #1
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Default Is On Road Electric Going the Way of F1

I saw on TV about the new A1 racing series and they are running at about 4% of the cost of F1 and it made me start to think if on road electric is going the way F1 is? Every year you have to buy new motors and batteries becuase the technology is evolving so fast. Tourning kit are outdated within a year. Next year everyone will be running 5 to 6 turn motors. Off road racers are trying to take away power from there buggies and trucks becuase the motors are too powerful. I'm starting to like off road racing becuase of it. What are your thoughts?
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Old 09-26-2005, 10:54 PM   #2
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I can kind of see the correlation you're making, and I'd tend to agree. I think that the scale speeds these things travel at is borderline silly. I think it's the reason we ('we' the racers in general) seem to be breaking cars more and more often in seemingly lighter and lighter taps, and why we keep demanding cars that hold up like tanks. It's because these things are traveling at something like 250-300 scale miles an hour on a road course surrounded by solid wooden barriers!! Imagine F1 cars careening aroung Monaco at twice the speed! Unsafe at least.

I don't know of any even moderetly organized racing series that doesn't at least set a horserpower limit, powerplant size limit, or even a spec tire. We (R/C racers) don't set a limit on anything, and I don't get it. There is only one track in my area that even weighs the cars at the weekly races.

I say we start having by having tracks, even at the local level, use a spec tire for the track. They can stage a vote and the tire with the majority of the votes is the new tire for that track. Any kind of track, be it off-road, on-road, 1/8 scale, whatever. Then they can start on the motors. Set a motor limit, or even a spec motor. Then start limiting battery size.... or...AND HERE'S A THOUGHT... make the races LONGER. So nobody can run those 8 and 9 turn motors and still make run time. With batteries these days lasting so long I'd be decently tuned car and stock motor could last at least 7 or 8 minutes at race speeds.

They had the right idea at this year's off-road nats. All the manufacturers agreed to a spec tire for all classes even though the rules didn't call for them. It was a nice start. I think clubs should follow suit.

*runs and ducks for cover*
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Old 09-26-2005, 11:03 PM   #3
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The hobby has been this way for decades, why would it be any different now. Desite what you say, the hobby continues to grow in popularity.
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Old 09-26-2005, 11:09 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cartmen34
Then start limiting battery size.... or...AND HERE'S A THOUGHT... make the races LONGER.

That's an awful idea and is a large part of why 1/12th scale died, batteries were everything, if you didn't have the best batteries you couldn't make runtime. It became ridiculous and if you didn't have an in getting proper batteries to be competitive was nearly impossible. You think things are expensive now.. start pushing these current cells to their limits, then think about the heat your motor will produce. You'll be spending more money in no time.
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Old 09-26-2005, 11:10 PM   #5
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I really think that speed is what makes this hobby. Surely anyone can drive an RC car if speed is limited but only a handful can with a 5-6 turn motor. I do understand the cost involve but thats the hobby were in
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Old 09-26-2005, 11:15 PM   #6
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If you want to race MOD then you need to spend the $$$$. Where I race there are 5 classes. 540 Novice, 540 Pro, Stock, 19T and Mod. I am new to the hobby and race in 540 pro. Not expensive at all, and all the motors must be silver can. Stock and 19t are restricted to motors of the same spec too. Mod is the premier class and it's the drivers choice whether or not they choose to compete at that level. It's the cheapest form of motor sport you can get into and even racing mod is no where near as expensive as racing a go cart or motor car.
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Old 09-26-2005, 11:22 PM   #7
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I don't think the spec thing will work. It will reduce some cost but over all I think it also adds more cost to raicng. When ever there is spec racing people always end up spending more money to get the slightest advantage. Take stock racing for example, people will buy more stock motor to find the best one. When was the last time you have to buy three mod motor that are wound the same way to find the fastest one? What we need to do is develop batteries that will last 3 years and have 3300 milliamp rather then batteries that are 5000 milliamp and only last half a season. I see the trend to increase milliamp in batteries but I don't see any thing being done about battery life. For me personally the cost of motors and tires are not that bad. I can make a set of foam tires last pretty long and motors are usually good for a while. It is the batteries that needs to be replace often. As far as car goes you don't need the latest and greatest to be competitive. At least not at the club level.
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Old 09-26-2005, 11:40 PM   #8
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Pssst, Ophidian. I'm over here. Under the table. Glad I ducked for cover when I did.

Ok, those are all valid points, but think about it. How many of you want your favorite brand of racing to go the way of 1/12, pan car oval, or even pan car roadcourse? This is just my opinion, but I'd bet many racers will stop when they have to buy new touring car tires, new motors, and new batteries constantly just to stay in the hunt for that illustrious mod A-main podium.

Plus, I'm suprised more of you don't want more bang for your buck. I know that when I spend ALL the time and money I do on these cars, that I'd like to spend more than just 5 minutes at a time on the track.

I also think this is exactly why our hobby is SOOOO intense. Everybody knows that they only have a few precious minutes to get it right. One little tap from another car, one marshall not paying attention, and your whole round is pratically ruined. Everybody knows this, and reacts with due intensity of the moment. I've seen more spectators walk away after track-side fights/arguments saying "Wow, glad I don't play with those cars.", than I care to remember. This is never a good thing, especially as we WANT the public to see the races and attract more racers. I dunno, but I might live in an area with an especially intense bunch of racers. I see confrontations every week at the track.


*ducks back underneath table.... considers running for the door.*
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Old 09-26-2005, 11:43 PM   #9
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1stly,why A1 is so cheap because every time uses the same car manufactured by the same chassis made by Reynold if I've not mistaken.And every body uses the same engine I think...So basically if you buy stuff in bulk,it should be cheap.The teams have less testing and R&D to do.So the cost can be so low compared to F1.

And also F1 is also trying to cut cost.I still can't accept the fact that,F1 next year willl be slower due to the 2.4L V8 engines,instead of the 3L V10s currently running...

And everyone playing this hobby will want to have better stuff.Who can be faster on the straight line.This hobby is still mainly dominated by back yard bashers that want to go fast.So the manufacturers would want to cater to the majority.

But I do agree that this hobby is becoming very expensive.

I remember last time where most think that nitro is the more expensive path to go,while electric should be considered 'slightly cheaper' alternative. Also no thanks to the current exchange rate too....!!
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Old 09-26-2005, 11:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ike
That's an awful idea and is a large part of why 1/12th scale died, batteries were everything, if you didn't have the best batteries you couldn't make runtime. It became ridiculous and if you didn't have an in getting proper batteries to be competitive was nearly impossible. You think things are expensive now.. start pushing these current cells to their limits, then think about the heat your motor will produce. You'll be spending more money in no time.

Yes, and I've fell pray to that game for a while as well. Back in my pan car oval days.


But my point is this. If someone (like and organizing body...ahem), would place limits on the things that produce that power, and then have clubs enforce the rules, then nobody has any need to spend $$ on more battery or more motor, becuase more motor/battery is illegal to use.

Look at it this way. What if, in your favorite form of motorsport, some team showed up one day with a motor that was double the displacement, but cost twice as much to build and maintain. It was harder on the car, so it also cost more to maintain. There is no rule that says they can't, so they decided that, just because they could afford it, they'd build a bigger motor to ensure a win. Things spiral out of control and soon you have people spending $200 million on their motor programs alone, just so they can barely stay on the lead lap. (Ahem, hello Toyota?) I dunno, but it doesn't sound right.

If we put limits on what people can RACE with, then we control costs by contolling the equipment. Let the manufacturers build those 5 and 6 turn motors for the backyard bashers. They'll still make plenty of money at it, plus what they make on the racing motors/batteries for us racers.

I guess it's why, after years of racing mod, I'm going back to the stock classes for most of my racing.
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Old 09-26-2005, 11:59 PM   #11
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I like the idea of being able to travel fast. WRXTC has it right If you want to race mod then race mod. If you don'thave the budget to racer mod race 19 turn we only race 19 turn at my club and we are faster than the gas cars around a track that can run 1/8th scale cars. So just race in the calss you can afford and if you want rac mod do it on a budget.
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Old 09-27-2005, 12:07 AM   #12
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ROAR does have limits, and we've reached the battery limit, so I wouldn't be worried about that. If you want cheaper prices, we need more companies to become actively engaged in R/C developement. And I do think part of it has to do with inflation, but competitiveness on the market is the ultimate thing to bring costs down. How you do that, you got me...
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Old 09-27-2005, 06:19 AM   #13
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If you limit grip, you also, in a way, limit power, and I agree with this for all forms of racing we have at club/regional level, when you get the National and International, I Think there should be just a limit on the amount of tyres you use, not a control tyre. Tyres is where the problem is, not motors or cells, if your tyre just CAN'T cope with a 6single, then you won't run a 6 single (Well, mostly).

Either that, or let it carry on and more people will go back to off-road, ace... lol.
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Old 09-27-2005, 06:40 AM   #14
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This is why pan car racing is taking off , the current batteries now have the capacity to provide a 1/12 scale with a 9 turn enough hp for 8 minutes also none of the drivers can go anywhere near full throttle on the back straight. With a 9 turn as it end up going too fast for the corner at the end of the straight. Going fast mean the car has to be prepared perfectly for each run bearing absolutly free diff smooth and free sunpension free etc.

Maybe to go fast on a buget we should look at 1/12th again
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Old 09-27-2005, 07:03 AM   #15
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racing is only as expensive as YOU make it. the on road race of the year hear in the Northwest i finished second, using a 4 year old paradox motor, everyone else was running the lastest and greatest monster stock, (i know your thinking if i ran a monster i would have been first but not so, a backmarker hack is a backmarker hack) same with chargers, my buddy has lrp sport chargers, i have lrp comp 2's sometimes i win, sometimes he wins
he also runs older very well taken care of 2400's, we have guys around here ripping it up with a gen 1 xxx-s, tc3's and xray 04s that were almost given away when everyone jumped to the 05's. look at all your stuff, and ask, which of these items have made me faster, which of these items i got cause so and so had them, which of these items i got cause it was the lastest and greatest. is on road on the way out, naw, not around these parts, is off road cheaper, yep. cause those guys don't buy hype. have a great day and race on, no matter what you race. btw, my m11 arrives wednesday, why, cause its cool.
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