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Old 09-27-2005, 07:05 AM   #16
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I can't comment on Mod as the indoor track I run at just isn't big enough to handle mod so the fastest we run is stock and thats fast enough. But last year we ran a 540 silver can spec class and a spec tire. It was by far the most expensive form of racing I've ever done. You had to buy 6 motors to find a good one, guys were running 1.19 batts and the tires were more expensive than others. I run stock now as that class has died and its much cheaper. I don't need more speed to be fast so I can finish in the top of the field just by driving. Plus tinkering is why I do this hobby I like to drive, but if I never had to work on my car I wouldn't do it.

I race for fun and so do the people I race with. We help each other and enjoy each other's company. This is why I race.
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Old 09-27-2005, 07:27 AM   #17
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Gee, this sounds like 1985... or maybe 1995.


Same complaints, different decade. Like Ike said eariler, this isn't anything new.

Guess what? No matter what cost limits or powere restrictions are placed on any form of racing, there will ALWAYS be the haves and have-nots. There will be people who spend a lot of money to win, and those who will race on a budget.

Show me a spec class that works, and I'll show you the definition of the word anomaly. If you instituted a spec class on me when I was 15, I would have one motor and one set of tires, and used them until they were dead. Force it on me now, and I'll stack the deck with 10 motors and 20 sets of tires, and I'll run the best of the bunch. Limit racers, and they will find a way to still use the best 1% of everything.

Cost and speeds are not the issue. The issue is there is still no entry level racing in the US. I spent a few minutes last night talking with someone who was 3 months into racing R/C for the first time ever. He is running a $450 luxury touring car, and contemplating a different luxury touring car, because he couldn't make the one he had work. Not that he's in over his head, but there is no class that allows him to learn at a slower/lower pace than even the stock/spec rubber tire classes can offer.

R/C racing is stronger than I have ever seen in, in 20+ years of racing.



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Old 09-27-2005, 07:35 AM   #18
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That is one surprise over here in the UK, the organising banner (the BRCA) in off-road electric, they have a regional series, which clubs in each 'region' hold events and a series, to compete at a regional level, not doing the nationals, this then allows you to qualify for a national 'end of year final'. In on-road tourers, there is no such BRCA support at grass roots, relying on club champs and one off series, not a great support, and such a big stepping stone from club to National.
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Old 09-27-2005, 07:35 AM   #19
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At my local track we actually do have a spec begineer class and it works wonderful there are people that have been running that class for years b/c well they just arn't that good and its very beginner friendly a newbie can buy a TT01 a radio a couple stick packs and win within a couple weeks. Everyone that wins eventually steps up and allows new people to win. It works, but only b/c of the people that do it.

We use a modified Tamiya TL01 spec rules.
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Old 09-27-2005, 07:47 AM   #20
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Top level of racing no matter what class will be expensive.

A very competitive Spec class will still cost ALOT.
I seen guys buy 10 Spec motors to get 1 good one.

You charge the batts at VERY amp rates and they don't last very long.
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Old 09-27-2005, 08:14 AM   #21
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Yea, this conversation has been going on since the dawn of RC, and there are no easy answers.

A spec class is a good idea for a local track or club to attract new racers, but not on the regional or national level.

Battery and motor costs have stablized lately, but the cost of a new touring car is getting ridiculous. Four hundred dollars for an electric touring car? Oy!

A national organization can only do what the racers want, and a majority of racers don't want a spec class.

A bigger problem is how fast we've gotten. Today's stock motors are about as fast as a 15 turn mod motor from 10 years ago. Most people just starting out can't handle a car that fast.
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Old 09-27-2005, 08:28 AM   #22
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IMHO, rc doesnt have too much to worry about. Why do some classes come and go? Its more like fashion lol. As one class fizzles, another class starts to blossom. Sometimes its your favourite class thats left behind. But the great thing about RC is there is always another class to race. In the nitro world, a few have been asking what happened to the 235 class. The nitro tc class has taken over from the 235 and numbers for Nitro TC have gone thru the roof. Thats just an example of how class numbers change. Ive seen this with the once popular F103 class. It was very cheap, very hard to drive and a real thrill to get it right. But the F103 was phased out by the F201, and we all changed to the new class. Now it looks as tho there is no F1 class in the future, as Tamiya havent revealed any plans for an upgrade that im aware of, and other manufacturers are not producing any F1 cars. The same can be said for 1/12th. That was the class to be in when i first started RC all those years ago. Now, i cant remember driving one, its been so long. No track could hold a 1/12th race as numbers had disappeared. Stock class had taken off in a HUGE way.

I think its more that the RC community have to change with the changing trends. The trends come from class numbers at your local track, and to what the manufacturers are releasing. But the BEST thing about RC... No matter what your budget is, there is a class you can afford and be good at.

Oh and as for the new chassis and new developing products, its up to the individual, on whether they buy the new latest and greatest. Ill never listen to anyone who says you cant win without the latest and greatest. With your own R&D on your old chassis, you would be amazed at how quick you can be. My fastest chassis i have ever had in Stock is still a lightly upgraded TA-04. Last time out it spanked a JRXS and a TC4. And that was with an old monster stock, using Tamiya 3300 stick packs!

I think the only problem RC would have, is if it lost sight of the Novice classes. This is where we get new people into the sport. I have seen clubs drop off the novice class and turn away the 1 or 2 new people who show up. Or even worse, throw the new people into Stock Pro. While clubs have a running Novice class, where you run what you brought, RC will have a great future. Whether the future will be TC or 1/12th or maybe some other variation, who knows. But i do know, that brushless will become ALOT more mainstream.... I hate cutting comms.... lol
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Old 09-27-2005, 09:25 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexSpeed
Cost and speeds are not the issue. The issue is there is still no entry level racing in the US. I spent a few minutes last night talking with someone who was 3 months into racing R/C for the first time ever. He is running a $450 luxury touring car, and contemplating a different luxury touring car, because he couldn't make the one he had work. Not that he's in over his head, but there is no class that allows him to learn at a slower/lower pace than even the stock/spec rubber tire classes can offer.
I agree. I did the same thing last year when I entered. If I hadn't been able to devote the time needed to increase my learning curve while being off work for 7 months, I would probably have given up by now.
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Old 09-27-2005, 11:35 AM   #24
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I agree that the most important thing is having a supportive and well run novice class. I'm just starting out and I am definitely intimidated by the thought of running Sportsman or Expert stock. There are folks driving in those classes who have been driving for years. Having novice with lots of beginners is very reassuring as it allows me to be somewhat competitive while learning to drive and tweak the car.

In addition, I think having a novice class does help keep costs down. It requires use of a stock motor, but other than that, there aren't restrictions. This is fine. Most beginners don't spend $100+ on battery packs or run the latest and most expensive XRAYs, etc. Those that do and who learn to drive, will likely start to win consistently and are asked to move up to Sportsman or Expert. I hope to keep practicing and maybe next season I can move up a class, perhaps I can even get competitive in 19 Turn some day. I'd be perfectly happy with that. I don't need to go mod (though I would like to see brushless technoloy trickle down to Stock or 19T just for the reduced maintenance).

On the other hand, for those that want to spend $1,000s, why not let them run what they want in a mod/open class. Just make sure there are other classes for us mere mortals ;-).

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Old 09-27-2005, 11:39 AM   #25
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I love threads like this! Let's slow the cars down! Let's all run 1900mah Piranha Stick packs! Better yet, let's make 1/10th touring car 4-cell, rubber tire, and we'll run the Mamba Sport package! And everybody has to run the exact same car. Or we could design an entirely new chassis, a flat piece of fiberglass with NO suspension, a straight axle, rear drive layout, with a fixed battery position, and a spec body! Then we could mandate that everyone use MRC Superbrain 959 chargers, lynx sport radios, and traxxas XL-1 speedos. That sounds exciting to me Wait! We better come up with an approved gear ratio, that way no one can go any faster by blowing somebody else's budget away purchasing a $4.00 pinion.

Part of the problem is the stigma some people attatch to the Novice class. I've seen people come in to a track, and day one they sign up for stock, even if a novice class is offered. It doesn't help when the fast guys stand around and bitch about having to marshall for the newbies.........
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Old 09-27-2005, 11:53 AM   #26
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Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go ? Not original but I think it says it all.
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Old 09-27-2005, 12:19 PM   #27
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Didn't Trinity try that Spec car thing about a year ago? Did that take off anywhere? Spec car, spec motor, spec batteries, limited hopups... Yeah, it was cheap, but did anyone (including new racers) do it? Nope.

We've had the same argument at our local track as long as I've been in the hobby. If it's not motors, it's tires. If it's not tires, it's batteries.

I rarely win, but that's okay. I race at the limits of my budget and still have a good time. I suppose I could slap a new set of tires on my car every couple of runs, but that's not possible with my budget. So, I'm fairly resolved to not winning.

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Old 09-27-2005, 12:29 PM   #28
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That quote is not 100% true. Im sick of people complaining about prices for new gear, when if they did some research, some R and D on their current gear, they could easily go faster. You know what is ALOT better and more satisfying than buying the latest equipment and going faster?... using your old outdated equipment, and someone asks u how the hell you went so fast.

I want to get that message across, that u dont have to spend big in rc to be competitive, as alot of new comers to the sport are driven away by comments like speed costs money. Altho it is somewhat true, using your own brain can cut costs considerably In almost any sport there will be someone who loves to spend, and on rare occasions, they also have the talent to use what they bought. But for a VAST majority of the RC industry, this is not the case. The industry has alot of money burners, and unfortunately, the industry also has alot of 'sheep'. Dont buy what someone else bought because he/she went fast.... do some actually thinking, and figure out why they went fast. Hype on new products is always great for sales.... Information like Battery maintenance, motor setup and tuning... its all on the net. Thats the information that the average racers forget about before buying the latest expensive race packs or race motors.

I dont beleive costs will be the down fall of rc, as the original post was alluring too, more a loss of baseroot RC is what will be its downfall. Majority of the clubs realise this and put alot of focus on current members helping new members and help spreading the word to new recruits. Ideas like a spec series as an ADDITIONAL class have worked wonders for membership at a few clubs ive heard of. Making the game FUN is basically what it all comes back to. The numbers drop off quickly when the sport gets increasingly serious, and the fun factor is lost. Make it fun, and more will join in
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Old 09-27-2005, 01:06 PM   #29
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Sedan racing at a club level


1 race entry $10
1 set of tire`s $45
spare part $15

Total $80

Biggest problem

This is`nt all you spend .....
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Old 09-27-2005, 01:20 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axle182
Im sick of people complaining about prices for new gear, when if they did some research, some R and D on their current gear, they could easily go faster. You know what is ALOT better and more satisfying than buying the latest equipment and going faster?... using your old outdated equipment, and someone asks u how the hell you went so fast.
Totally in agreement.
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