what to get
11-06-2014, 03:12 AM
#1
what to get
Guys, I am just getting into electric touring. I live in Vietnam and they have no real rules as far as electronics goes. I picked up two used kits a t3 and a trf 415. They are both just too slow for my liking and I have no idea what type of esc or motor they have. So my questions are can I upgrade a t3 to a t4? What about the trf 415 can I upgrade it to at least a 417? Also what would be the fastest esc combo I could get. All of my past experience has been off road so this is all new to me. I have a MT4s and a MT12 sanwa remote. I was looking at a Tekin combo with the 4.5 turn and a castle 7000 kv, but hobby wing also has a nice 4.5 combo, what would be the fastest and most reliable. I also noticed that some of the esc can run a 3s would it be better to just run the 7600 2s or would a 3s be useable? This might have been asked before but I just really want speed, their tracks are ran on small tennis courts here so I could swap some top speed for some torque but prefer the faster the better
11-06-2014, 03:38 AM
#2
Well, I'm new to touring cars as well, but even I know that faster is not necessarily better.
Starting with a 4.5T motor (modified) on small tracks seems not to be the optimum starting point.
Maybe 17.5T or 13.5T running in blinky mode, advancing to boosted/timing modes, would be a better start.
About your asking upgrading your 415 to a 417, I don't know how feasible this is, I would much rather concentrate on getting the right motor/esc combo and some training.
If your cars are slow, I don't think it is a matter of car versions, maybe I'm reading your post wrongly?
Running touring car on 3s, never heard about it.
Don't get med wrong, but is seems like you need to do some more (google) reasearching on touring cars, maybe read through the threads of some of the most popular touring cars (Yokomo BD7, X-ray T4, Tamiya TRF's etc.). That will probably set many things straight for you, and "align" your expectations to real life.
Starting with a 4.5T motor (modified) on small tracks seems not to be the optimum starting point.
Maybe 17.5T or 13.5T running in blinky mode, advancing to boosted/timing modes, would be a better start.
About your asking upgrading your 415 to a 417, I don't know how feasible this is, I would much rather concentrate on getting the right motor/esc combo and some training.
If your cars are slow, I don't think it is a matter of car versions, maybe I'm reading your post wrongly?
Running touring car on 3s, never heard about it.
Don't get med wrong, but is seems like you need to do some more (google) reasearching on touring cars, maybe read through the threads of some of the most popular touring cars (Yokomo BD7, X-ray T4, Tamiya TRF's etc.). That will probably set many things straight for you, and "align" your expectations to real life.
11-06-2014, 05:17 AM
#3
Tech Regular
iTrader: (23)
Upgrading T3 to T4 is simply not very cost effective - you would need to buy new chassis, topdecks, layshafts, shocks - will be much better to just sell off your t3 and get a t4, new or used up to you. I assume the situation will be similar to the TRF's, they are simply different generation cars.
If you are new to TC and running on a small track such as a tennis court (with presumably quite low grip), definitely would not recommend modified (4.5t) motors. You will likely break your car many times over. If you're daring, start at 17.5 level as it seems like you have some rc experience. Complete newbies usually start in the 21.5 or 25.5 levels. 13.5 is very quick also and probably not recommended for starting out.
Never heard of running TC's on 3s batteries except for straight line speed records or something... If you want to go faster just upgrade your motor. With a 4.5t system you will have more than enough power and speed so don't really see the point of this.
If you are new to TC and running on a small track such as a tennis court (with presumably quite low grip), definitely would not recommend modified (4.5t) motors. You will likely break your car many times over. If you're daring, start at 17.5 level as it seems like you have some rc experience. Complete newbies usually start in the 21.5 or 25.5 levels. 13.5 is very quick also and probably not recommended for starting out.
Never heard of running TC's on 3s batteries except for straight line speed records or something... If you want to go faster just upgrade your motor. With a 4.5t system you will have more than enough power and speed so don't really see the point of this.
11-06-2014, 05:39 AM
#4
Salkin,
I am only new to electric touring cars. I have ran NT1's for a long time, just never ventured into electric. I want maximum speed as I said they don't have rules and sometimes run on tennis courts, they actually have really good grip. I mainly race off road buggy classes but have decided to give electric a try as it is catching on here and I am a speed freak so I want as fast as possible. I bought two used cars just to start out to see what platform I like better, I am used to xray but I really wanted to try tamiya as well. I know on the Nt1 you can upgrade quite easily from year to year so I figured i would ask if the same was possible or not. With them not doing any major racing for electric onroad in Vietnam I do not see the need to just buy a new one right away but rather get a feel for which one I prefer and which one suits my driving style, then eventually buy a newer model but again just wanting to get my feet wet. A few of the guys are running 5.5's already the straights are quite long as the way they are laid out. I just want a fast combo so I can have fun, again I am used to running my NT1 around the track so control is not an issue, I just want speed and don't know anything about the castle 7000 kv against the Tekin 4.5
I am only new to electric touring cars. I have ran NT1's for a long time, just never ventured into electric. I want maximum speed as I said they don't have rules and sometimes run on tennis courts, they actually have really good grip. I mainly race off road buggy classes but have decided to give electric a try as it is catching on here and I am a speed freak so I want as fast as possible. I bought two used cars just to start out to see what platform I like better, I am used to xray but I really wanted to try tamiya as well. I know on the Nt1 you can upgrade quite easily from year to year so I figured i would ask if the same was possible or not. With them not doing any major racing for electric onroad in Vietnam I do not see the need to just buy a new one right away but rather get a feel for which one I prefer and which one suits my driving style, then eventually buy a newer model but again just wanting to get my feet wet. A few of the guys are running 5.5's already the straights are quite long as the way they are laid out. I just want a fast combo so I can have fun, again I am used to running my NT1 around the track so control is not an issue, I just want speed and don't know anything about the castle 7000 kv against the Tekin 4.5
11-06-2014, 12:39 PM
#5
I think it would help if you were to tell us if you want to go fast or go quick as they are often different things. Fast is simply putting a big motor and battery in a light car, pulling the trigger, and get out of the way. Being quick means getting down a straight, around a corner or three, then down another straight in less time than the other guy. It takes a lot more skill, both driving and setting up the car, to be quick.
Either of your cars can be very quick with the right set up. The difference between kits could easily come down to which one you like better for ease of set up or ease of getting spare parts. You'll find the springs, shock oils, and suspension settings have as much to do with being quick than pure horsepower. Of course in an unlimited class, weight savings like the Aluminum screw sets or shaving parts start to Matter, so availability of aftermarket parts could come into it. But truth be known, I think the right set of tires for your track conditions is going to make more difference in your lap times than what year or brand of kit you have.
One thing is for certain in an unlimited class, it can soak up an unlimited amount of money.
Either of your cars can be very quick with the right set up. The difference between kits could easily come down to which one you like better for ease of set up or ease of getting spare parts. You'll find the springs, shock oils, and suspension settings have as much to do with being quick than pure horsepower. Of course in an unlimited class, weight savings like the Aluminum screw sets or shaving parts start to Matter, so availability of aftermarket parts could come into it. But truth be known, I think the right set of tires for your track conditions is going to make more difference in your lap times than what year or brand of kit you have.
One thing is for certain in an unlimited class, it can soak up an unlimited amount of money.
11-06-2014, 01:04 PM
#6
Castle motors are sensorless, so they are not recommended for racing. Of the systems you mentioned, hobbywing would likely have the smoothest bottom end, making it easier to control in the infield. NOT their EZrun system though. Again, that one is sensorless. If you go with hobbywing, you would want a Xerun-120A V3.1
There's no need to run a TC on 3s. It's not going to get you around a track any faster, even if it was allowed. A 4.5 on 2s is fast enough for the largest tracks, especially if it's geared right and you add some boost and turbo. It can easily blow your tires right off the rims if the straight is long enough.
Run the T3 as is. The cost to convert it to a T4 would be almost as much as buying a new T4.
Just make sure that whatever car you use, it's set up very precisely, is well balanced left/right and all bearings are free and smooth. You'll also need to be very smooth on the trigger (nitro finger=bad
) and steering inputs. The power in an open modified class will expose every little issue with the car and also your driving.
There's no need to run a TC on 3s. It's not going to get you around a track any faster, even if it was allowed. A 4.5 on 2s is fast enough for the largest tracks, especially if it's geared right and you add some boost and turbo. It can easily blow your tires right off the rims if the straight is long enough.
Run the T3 as is. The cost to convert it to a T4 would be almost as much as buying a new T4.
Just make sure that whatever car you use, it's set up very precisely, is well balanced left/right and all bearings are free and smooth. You'll also need to be very smooth on the trigger (nitro finger=bad
) and steering inputs. The power in an open modified class will expose every little issue with the car and also your driving.
Last edited by locked; 11-06-2014 at 01:28 PM.
11-06-2014, 11:05 PM
#7
Thanks for the help. I want to be competitive but I also want to be fast. I have never ran electric so I have no real idea what sensored or sensor-less does. I don't understand the boost or adding a turbo again I am a noob when it comes to electric. Our tracks are pretty tight with lots of corners so I guess I would want something that would be suitable. Most of the people here are running 4.5 or 5 turn motors, they have the 4.5 speed passion and their pro esc in stock, anything else other than hobbywing I will have to order. Setting up the car is not an issue again I have raced my NT1 and off road for a few years. Questioning on the upgrade is not a real issue just didn't know if they had kits to do it so I figured I would ask. Only real reason I am switching to electric on road is that the off road tracks are far and I just started my Masters program so won't have a lot of time to travel far. Again they don't have classes here it is run what you bring, no tech no nothing, and thanks for all your help, if you have links that I can check out as to what/how to get boost or a turbo let me know
11-09-2014, 03:54 AM
#10
I don't know what your post is for. I have ran nitro off and on road for a long time already. I have just never ran electric and asked what would be best to be competitive as far as esc combos go. A few run LRP but mainly hobby wing and speed passion as they are pretty cheap. I have heard a lot of good things about Tekin but again have never ran them or any electric for that matter, not even on 1/8 scale off road. I don't know what the benefit of sensored or un-sensored is. I don't understand what the pc link on the higher end combos do. I am in Vietnam and am an American, most of the people who play rc here have very little English skills so that is why I am asking on this post instead of at the track, they also are very competitive and have lied to me in the past trying to make sure I wasn't competitive with them but I caught it because I do know a bit about setting up a car. Hell, wen they were looking at my Tamiya they tried to get me to put the small gear on the rear to make it more like a drift car. So going to the track and asking for help besides a few of the people they would not be of any help
11-09-2014, 04:35 AM
#11
Are you going to run foam or rubber on your electric TC. I assume you run foams on your NT1, thats one of the biggest reasons your getting dencent grip on a tennis court. If you run foams on you electric, it grip might be similar. If you run rubber tires in electric like they do in 99.9% of world does now, grip will be considerably lower. An electiric with a 4.5 on 2s with boost and turbo will be faster than any nitro out there, even with a 2 speed attached. Just youtube some videos of this years worlds races. You can hardly follow the cars on the back stretch.
11-09-2014, 04:59 AM
#12
Boost and turbo refers to advanced timing settings in the ESC. Boost is typically a number of degrees added over a specified RPM range. Turbo is a number of degrees that come in at a specified rate, only at full throttle.
Basically the ideal moment for when each motor phase fires, in relation to the rotor position, changes as RPM increases. A sensored setup allows the ESC to know precisely where the rotor is and can spin a motor much faster by dynamically changing the timing of when the phases fire. To change these settings on most ESCs, you need their programmer box(card) or in the case of Tekin you would need their "Hotwire" link and an android device with their app or a laptop.
When playing with these settings it's best to start small and gradually increase until you get the desired performance without the motor or ESC getting too hot. Check temps every couple of minutes on track after changing any of these settings. It's easy to go too far, where you don't gain performance, just heat.
You're diving straight into the deep end of electric racing, which is usually discouraged. Hence some of the comments here. Good luck.
Basically the ideal moment for when each motor phase fires, in relation to the rotor position, changes as RPM increases. A sensored setup allows the ESC to know precisely where the rotor is and can spin a motor much faster by dynamically changing the timing of when the phases fire. To change these settings on most ESCs, you need their programmer box(card) or in the case of Tekin you would need their "Hotwire" link and an android device with their app or a laptop.
When playing with these settings it's best to start small and gradually increase until you get the desired performance without the motor or ESC getting too hot. Check temps every couple of minutes on track after changing any of these settings. It's easy to go too far, where you don't gain performance, just heat.
You're diving straight into the deep end of electric racing, which is usually discouraged. Hence some of the comments here. Good luck.
11-14-2014, 04:57 PM
#13
Boost and turbo refers to advanced timing settings in the ESC. Boost is typically a number of degrees added over a specified RPM range. Turbo is a number of degrees that come in at a specified rate, only at full throttle.
Basically the ideal moment for when each motor phase fires, in relation to the rotor position, changes as RPM increases. A sensored setup allows the ESC to know precisely where the rotor is and can spin a motor much faster by dynamically changing the timing of when the phases fire. To change these settings on most ESCs, you need their programmer box(card) or in the case of Tekin you would need their "Hotwire" link and an android device with their app or a laptop.
When playing with these settings it's best to start small and gradually increase until you get the desired performance without the motor or ESC getting too hot. Check temps every couple of minutes on track after changing any of these settings. It's easy to go too far, where you don't gain performance, just heat.
You're diving straight into the deep end of electric racing, which is usually discouraged. Hence some of the comments here. Good luck.
Basically the ideal moment for when each motor phase fires, in relation to the rotor position, changes as RPM increases. A sensored setup allows the ESC to know precisely where the rotor is and can spin a motor much faster by dynamically changing the timing of when the phases fire. To change these settings on most ESCs, you need their programmer box(card) or in the case of Tekin you would need their "Hotwire" link and an android device with their app or a laptop.
When playing with these settings it's best to start small and gradually increase until you get the desired performance without the motor or ESC getting too hot. Check temps every couple of minutes on track after changing any of these settings. It's easy to go too far, where you don't gain performance, just heat.
You're diving straight into the deep end of electric racing, which is usually discouraged. Hence some of the comments here. Good luck.
11-14-2014, 05:08 PM
#14
Thanks for your help. We run rubber and foam here most of the guys are using the lrp rubber tires but I have many left over from my NT1 so it doesn't matter what I run. When you said getting in to the deep end of racing is funny as there is really not much organization here mostly fun with a club race a week. But near my house I have a huge place on blacktop that is smooth with no cracks or patches and no traffic to play/practice and that is why I want tons of speed. Getting used to the feel is quite different than my NT1, and when I do get out with the others I will be competitive when it comes to car. Thanks again
Set the TRF415 up with a nice sensored Hobbywing 13.5T or 10.5T combo on 2s. Take time and set up the suspension to your driving habits. Take time and dial everything in.
Then...
Set the TC3 up with a 5700KV Castle system. Put 3s in it and have fun out by your house.
Solves both problems....
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