R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-15-2014, 06:42 AM   #106
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,586
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CypressMidWest View Post
Agreed to a certain extent, but back in the day, ALL tracks were 2x4's and in the US tracks were short by Global standards. I know one WC that did nearly all of his racing on 65'x35' tracks. He won on a track nearly twice the size he was used to, and beat the Naoto of his era. Back in the day we manned up, and learned to drive without dots. On sissy layouts with dots, a hack can win a few WC's because mistakes count less.

How about the greasy track conditions at the 12th worlds. Euro 12th drivers are used to drifting their cars around a dotted track. Add Vegas, Snowbirds, Cleveland or Halloween Classic style bite, with REAL barriers and the results woulda been different, sorry, but it's truth.
Back in the day the cars were slow. In 1999, you could get 2 heats of mod at Leisure hours carpet track in sedan. Why? It was within the reach of normal human reflexes. When I saw the video of the 2000 worlds at Yatabe, it was amazing how slow mod was. This is not the case anymore.
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 06:47 AM   #107
Tech Elite
 
kewdawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sneederville, USA
Posts: 3,311
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default No difference between racers

"Gas tracks" don't deter electric racers from running. Electric racers decide, on their own, not to run at these tracks. Mostly because they cannot run 17.5 on a "big" track. They have found numerous, unfounded reasons to NOT run Mod TC. Every track that I have raced gas cars at locally (tri-state area), has always welcomed Electric TC classes. They have NEVER been turned away or discouraged.
kewdawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 07:35 AM   #108
Tech Master
 
Xpress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Dirt sucks!
Posts: 1,613
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Could it have something to do with not wanting to race for 6 minutes and then being expected to marshal for 30?
__________________
"Desire is the key to motivation, but it's the determination and commitment to an unrelenting pursuit of laying it down - a commitment to excellence - that will enable you to attain the success you seek to beat ass."

-Espo
Xpress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 07:40 AM   #109
Tech Master
 
Xpress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Dirt sucks!
Posts: 1,613
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Could it have something to do with not wanting to race for 6 minutes and then being expected to marshal for 30?
__________________
"Desire is the key to motivation, but it's the determination and commitment to an unrelenting pursuit of laying it down - a commitment to excellence - that will enable you to attain the success you seek to beat ass."

-Espo
Xpress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 07:48 AM   #110
Tech Elite
 
oeoeo327's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,637
Trader Rating: 74 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kewdawg View Post
"Gas tracks" don't deter electric racers from running. Electric racers decide, on their own, not to run at these tracks. Mostly because they cannot run 17.5 on a "big" track. They have found numerous, unfounded reasons to NOT run Mod TC. Every track that I have raced gas cars at locally (tri-state area), has always welcomed Electric TC classes. They have NEVER been turned away or discouraged.
While it would be fun learning to run mod TC on larger tracks, I think many of the programs held at those facilities would have to make a few concessions to encourage Electric TC turnouts. Speaking exclusively from my point of view, I think separate practice sessions for nitro and electric cars would have to be considered if we were to start making a move towards running nitro and mod electric cars at the same venue on the same race day.Personally, I would be very hesitant to practice amongst heavier vehicles traveling at similar speeds, as even accidental contact almost guarantees the lighter car sustaining significant damage in a high speed impact.

Another item to consider would be track preparation procedures and overall facility preparedness; local tracks would more or less have to standardize their track prep rituals so that racers traveling to multiple venues could expect the same type of prepped surface. I'd find it annoying to have to reconfigure a car to run on VHT for one event when most of the other venues use soda or sugar water. Using either method for prepping the surface still puts us behind the rest of the world since most tracks aren't prepped like ours here in the states; if we were to get truly serious about developing mod TC drivers, we'd also have to consider running on green race tracks.

Let's not discount some of the other basics either - adequate electricity for charging batteries, and the fact that lighter cars using rubber tires need smoother racing surfaces. Both of those attributes aren't absolute requirements for nitro racing, but are of great importance to electric racers. In short, I don't think nitro and electric racing are exclusive realms because they WANT to be, but most venues truly cater to one group or the other. While all of the outdoor tracks in my area encourage ALL racers to attend, some racers attend knowing that they are making concessions to their preferences for a given racing facility. Considering the time and expense involved, I could see why racers might prefer venues that cater to their chosen racing discipline - I know I do...
__________________
Founding member of the Solid Gold Racing Team - Mediocrity, redefined...
oeoeo327 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 07:52 AM   #111
Tech Elite
 
oeoeo327's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,637
Trader Rating: 74 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress View Post
Could it have something to do with not wanting to race for 6 minutes and then being expected to marshal for 30?
Valid point, but easily solved... A local off road track near me has used the perfect solution for this dilemma with great success - gas racers marshall gas races, electric racers marshal electric races. Otherwise, asking racers to marshal a main event that exceeds the amount of track time they receive is absurd.
__________________
Founding member of the Solid Gold Racing Team - Mediocrity, redefined...
oeoeo327 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 09:03 AM   #112
Tech Elite
 
theproffesor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lugoff SC
Posts: 2,834
Trader Rating: 58 (100%+)
Default

You'd think it would be easily solved, but a local track here does that to when they can. But then they run the electric mains last to let the premier gas guys that spend the night in their trailers and travel 6-8 hours to be there go home. I also hated practicing even with my 1/8 ebuggy against nitro. The cars are just as loud as the drivers constanly yelling at their pit people.

It comes down to, on road and off, nitro and electric people are just different personality types. And while way may get along, the racing styles and rules are too different for a smooth and happy relationship to exist long term with enough drivers of iether to support the effort. One side will always feel they are giving up more than the other in any type of compromise. It sucks that that is the way it is, but its America, and Americans like what they like and nobody can tell us otherwise.

In addition there are so many other things to do here. We have hiking, boating, 4 wheelin, mud runs, triathalons, football, baseball, basketball, biking, oh and rc is a middle class hobby here. That means things are kept on a tight budget for both the racer and racing facility.

Also as mentioned before 17.5 is what mod used to be. So for us Amercans it was a natural transition to 17.5 while utilizing the same facilities. There are only a handful of tracks around the country that csn handle the speeds a modern mod produces. Then we get into the issue spoken about above. And as
much fun as people make of 25.5 and 21.5, thats the speed stock (27t) and superstock (19t) used to be.
__________________
The brighter the picture, the darker the negative. USVTA member #112
theproffesor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 09:30 AM   #113
Tech Elite
 
nf_ekt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: 22 Acacia Avenue
Posts: 4,632
Trader Rating: 113 (100%+)
Default

I guess if you could get ifmar to allow a 17.5 or 13.5 WC class to exist, we might stand a chance. Bitd mod was much slower, a class that could exist at nearly any track (within reason). Obviously we have limited resources in the states when it comes to current electric mod racing. As long as mod is the only class at an ifmar worlds, then I wouldn't expect to see a US driver pull it off. These guys like PL are doing an absolutely amazing job to be where they are. I bet if Paul had the finances to move overseas and race on those tracks on a weekly basis, he'd have the ability to maybe take a WC.
__________________
Up the Irons \m/

Powered by Hotwings, Rolling Rock, and the urge to race toy cars...
nf_ekt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 09:32 AM   #114
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: FL
Posts: 1,604
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

When I attended the Reedy Race in 2005/2006 at the Tamiya track running a 19turn we ran 14-14.2 sec laps. Now with all the advancements in technology, tires, and chassis, they were running mid 12's with a 13.5 this past year.
__________________
Mike Dobbs
barnacle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 09:39 AM   #115
Tech Elite
 
CypressMidWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 4,618
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
Back in the day the cars were slow. In 1999, you could get 2 heats of mod at Leisure hours carpet track in sedan. Why? It was within the reach of normal human reflexes. When I saw the video of the 2000 worlds at Yatabe, it was amazing how slow mod was. This is not the case anymore.
True, and in the US in 1999 it was on foams, so the cars were actually under control, too. Guess we should just start racing Oval with a chicane at one end, and paint on the track layout. (tongue in cheek)
__________________
Team CRC, PowerPush, Access Race Place, US Indoor Champs, CD SUPERPRO, RK Designs, TxDSkingraphix, Cypress, Founder and lead instructor of the Ian Ruggles Negative Reinforcement Driver Training Program, enroll now.....
CypressMidWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 09:42 AM   #116
Tech Addict
 
Loco4G63T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 546
Trader Rating: 23 (100%+)
Default The Off-Road scene VS. On-Road scene

I myself started R/C racing with nitro TC back in 1999 and have been on/off since (women taking my toy cars away). When I initially started we always had nitro/ elec. guys sharing the track and we all martialed for each other. We as a club never had any issues.

Now aside from that, everyone knows that this hobby is not just about fun but also MONEY! I have noticed like everyone else that off-road has went through the roof. The LHS is a major influence on the racing scene, period. When I started racing competitively back in 99', the LHS manager pushed me into On-Road right off the bat. Almost every LHS I have gone into in the last 5 years is always a scene involving a SHORT COURSE TRUCK! I'm a little old schooled in the sense that if you want to groom competitive r/c drivers you need to start in on-road. On-road teaches the fundamentals of clean driving skills that are lost in many forms of club level off-road racing. I know the 2wd Buggy/ Stadium truck guys draw a thinner crowd just because they are a little harder to drive keeping in mind the "open wheel" action. You hardly ever see an LHS push 2wd buggies on NOOB when in reality if your determined off-road is the answer than that is the vehicle to learn with IMHO. I truly believe that the answer to bringing back on-road racing/ American Mod TC Drivers lies with the LHS and old school parking lot tracks. Parking lot tracks can definitely ease the lack of permanent road course tracks. Pushing on-road again will groom future American racers. On a side note I would love to see nitro TC come back full swing along with hardcore Mod EP Touring Car.

Another issue with on-road racing.........I had one old timer that saw me struggle for about 3 weekends and yanked my car off the track as soon as I was done. He started wrenching on my car and used his own shock oil with a set of old tires. The rest is history These are the type of ambassadors we need for the hobby on both sides of the house. Too often I see guys keeping to themselves and not helping any of the new comers out. I make it a point to let people, new to the hobby, know that if they are having any difficulty or don't mind me tuning their car, that I am available. We as the older generation of racers have to mentor the new guys instead of keeping all our "SPEED SECRETS". Just keep a few, in case is they start to get too good

Last opinion, PUSH VTA and other SPEC CLASSES!!!!! These are great starting points and when a club works together you might just produce a good MOD DRIVER or two down the road.

Disclaimer: I own both on-road and off-road cars so please don't think I am blasting Off-Road racing! Thank You
__________________
"D" TTRC - RCRNV and Mimi's "The TRACK".
OFF ROAD - B5M CE, TLR22T 2.0, and Mugen MBX7R Eco.
ON ROAD - 13' T4(VTA), 14' T4(USGT), CRC X10LE (WGT), Tamiya M03-R & Euro Semi-Truck, MST FXX-D S II (DRIFT) and Serpent 977e Evo 2.
Driving through hell and back! Phoenix Raceway, Afghanistan 10'-11'.
Loco4G63T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 09:45 AM   #117
Tech Elite
 
CypressMidWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 4,618
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kewdawg View Post
I don't agree that corner dots makes a track any easier to drive or "sissy". They're actually pretty genius because they save cars but still make you pay for mistakes. I'll take them over hard or pointy 24s any day.
Pointy 2x4's definitely aren't the answer anymore. The Gate has some really nice, and quite forgiving barriers. If you clout one your car will break, but normally you just glance off of them. I hate racing on dot tracks simply because they offer the opportunity to dive inside someone outside the intended track limit, which usually results in the smarter driver being collected when the negligent driver's car comes flying off the dot.
__________________
Team CRC, PowerPush, Access Race Place, US Indoor Champs, CD SUPERPRO, RK Designs, TxDSkingraphix, Cypress, Founder and lead instructor of the Ian Ruggles Negative Reinforcement Driver Training Program, enroll now.....
CypressMidWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 09:49 AM   #118
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Medina, Ohio
Posts: 761
Default

Ian
We have a little bit of trouble relating since we come from the area that only has about 4 months for outdoor racing and the track surfaces don't survive well. Its the southern racers that have to uphold the banner. (to far to commute but I used to love outdoor racing). Personally I have a issue with large tracks of any kind. I have a vision problem that cause me issues with depth perception. Small tracks are OK but big ones give me issues.
__________________
www.norcarracing.com
NORCAR @ The Gate
old_dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 02:01 PM   #119
Tech Elite
 
Odin544's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Kennewick, Washington
Posts: 3,166
Trader Rating: 93 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by terry.sc View Post
Obviously depends on where you are in the UK, but for me the furthest national track would take 5-6 hours driving, assuming there's no traffic holdups. It averages out around 3-4 hours driving, costing around $50-60 in fuel. Then you are looking at $80-100 per night in a basic hotel. The biggest drop in drivers at national level is due to the travel costs.
The closest on-road track to me, aside from our own, is 2-1/2 hours away. And its maybe 1/4 the size of our track. Next closest would be 4 hours. And both those tracks like to start in the afternoons. So driving up, racing and driving back can be very tough. And that's just for club racing.
__________________
Xray - ORCA - Avid RC - MaxFX Paint
TriCitiesRC.com
Odin544 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 06:38 PM   #120
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,861
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

Just looked at the lower results and really we didn't do that bad. Several Americans made the B with times just a hair off the top. It wouldn't have taken much to get Paul L, JJ Wang or Rick Howhart into the show.

It doesn't help that Yokomo and Tamiya are pretty much dominating right now and they both have very little presence in America. Yeah the TC6 is a decent car but imagine what rick could do with full on Yokomo support.
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 09:59 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net