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Old 10-13-2014, 05:08 PM   #76
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I was talking about asphalt outdoor tracks, like ours


I was used to run boosted 10.5 here... and then I get for a blinky 4.5... On this track that was a little bit too much (we have low grip) so I went back for a boosted 6.5, smoother in the low...

We are talking about 75km/h max in the straight... Far far from the 100km/h+ from the WC...

If you want an advice, go for a good 6.5, you will need a lot of practice before you reach the limits and have to install a 4.5

Just my experience there by the way...

Problem with EPA is that as you are seting up the cartography on the motor, setting up the turbo to be properly enabled, the acceleration to be optimal, reducing the EPA would ruin all these efforts, reducing also the resolution of the ESC...
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Old 10-13-2014, 05:28 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwave View Post
I was talking about asphalt outdoor tracks, like ours


I was used to run boosted 10.5 here... and then I get for a blinky 4.5... On this track that was a little bit too much (we have low grip) so I went back for a boosted 6.5, smoother in the low...

We are talking about 75km/h max in the straight... Far far from the 100km/h+ from the WC...

If you want an advice, go for a good 6.5, you will need a lot of practice before you reach the limits and have to install a 4.5

Just my experience there by the way...

Problem with EPA is that as you are seting up the cartography on the motor, setting up the turbo to be properly enabled, the acceleration to be optimal, reducing the EPA would ruin all these efforts, reducing also the resolution of the ESC...
I was referring more to carpet tracks so my bad. On tracks that big, mod motors don't feel so intimidating since there is more room (literally) for error. I think one of the biggest keys on a track like that is to be smooth with both the steering and throttle inputs.
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Old 10-14-2014, 07:11 AM   #78
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This track is nice, where is it?

The way I see it is, if you can run a nitro TC on the track, you can run a mod TC. If the track is running 8th scale, there's no reason not to run a mod TC.

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Originally Posted by Airwave View Post
I was talking about asphalt outdoor tracks, like ours


I was used to run boosted 10.5 here... and then I get for a blinky 4.5... On this track that was a little bit too much (we have low grip) so I went back for a boosted 6.5, smoother in the low...

We are talking about 75km/h max in the straight... Far far from the 100km/h+ from the WC...

If you want an advice, go for a good 6.5, you will need a lot of practice before you reach the limits and have to install a 4.5

Just my experience there by the way...

Problem with EPA is that as you are seting up the cartography on the motor, setting up the turbo to be properly enabled, the acceleration to be optimal, reducing the EPA would ruin all these efforts, reducing also the resolution of the ESC...
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Old 10-14-2014, 08:22 AM   #79
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Mechanics... when did this turn into 1:1 racing. These are (very complex and exspensive) toy cars. But they are small and not nesrly as complex to work on as a real car. Why do you need a mechanic. If you cant (or wont) work on your own car, then your just playing gran tourismo 3d. Exceptions made for the very young/old/disabled. Maybe thats why all the young kids are doing better. More stick time in front of the boob tube.
At the top level of racing, this is nothing new (and yes, these guys do know how to wrench on their own cars). The drivers get to relax a bit and focus on their race strategy for the next round, the mechanic takes their input and translates that into a setup that will work better.... at a race such as the ifmar worlds where there are many rounds of practice / qual / and then a full day of mains it only makes sense to give these guys (who are under a lot of pressure to perform) a bit of relief / help in this sense.

You see it more amongst the teams from overseas.... RC is a much bigger deal (as a hobby and a serious profession).
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Old 10-14-2014, 08:45 AM   #80
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Exactly. Many rounds of everything. You should have plenty of time to wrench and relax and focus on next run. If the weekend warrior can find time to wrench on their car between rounds at a club race, then it should be possible at a big race.

If the mechanic does all the work, who/what should get the credit for a win? The driver, the mechanic, or the chassis?

Any of the top drivers at the worlds could drive any car to the podium in a blind test. Never tell them what they are driving, they just give inputs to mechanics until whatever chassis it is performs to their liking. You could probably do the same type of thing for the mechanics. They dont know what they are wrenching on (harder to do, but you get the idea).

Under this scenario, if driver x was always top 3 after several runs, then they are probably the best driver out there. Or if chassis x was always in top 3 regardless of driver, then it would be the best chassis.
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Old 10-14-2014, 08:54 AM   #81
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I was going through the worlds thread from Florida and looking at the results of the two A features (borrowing dirt track parlance) and saw only one American make either, Donny Lia in 1/12th.

That got me to wondering...how come Americans are so hard to find in the A mains/features at the major world level events, particularly onroad?
Most of the talented newcomers to R/C racing are racing other classes while those that had the talent to be top level drivers chose to race 17.5.

The WC 1/12 track was as American as it gets. There was no disadvantage and the TC track was not particularly difficult. Difficult would be racing TC on a European carpet track!

Even back in 2008 PL and I were the only Americans at the Worlds and when there are more than two, there are no more than five. Had this Worlds been in Europe or Asia you would still have had three at most.

And the Worlds is not an easy race. There were four Americans in the top 17 in the TC race. Considering that JJ Wang is up and coming, Scotty Gray is a part time electric racer, I am 47 years, and Lemieux is no youngster, I would say the Americans did pretty well (14th, 15th, 16th, 17th)

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Mechanics... when did this turn into 1:1 racing. These are (very complex and exspensive) toy cars. But they are small and not nesrly as complex to work on as a real car. Why do you need a mechanic. If you cant (or wont) work on your own car, then your just playing gran tourismo 3d. Exceptions made for the very young/old/disabled. Maybe thats why all the young kids are doing better. More stick time in front of the boob tube.
R/C cars are as complex as most real race cars. Most of the top drivers are testing with 2-3 cars and practice at a race like the Worlds with 2 cars. Unlike most American races you are racing your car 6-7 times per day. To run that same car 7 times at the IIC (for example) you will run it over 4 days ('Birds: 5 days).

I feel that I am at a disadvantage without what a mechanic would bring to the table.
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Old 10-14-2014, 09:38 AM   #82
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Companies like Yokomo and Tamiya know what a big win in TC does for their reputation and sales, at least in the overseas markets. So you can bet the Teams are going to do what ever it takes to ensure success. If that means having a guy that focuses on dropping a mm-perfect car down every time, so be it. Having a second opinion on the right changes can be a good thing as well. The teams don't want their guys stressing over the car, they want them to drive them.
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Old 10-14-2014, 11:37 AM   #83
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As an independent driver wrenching on my own stuff, I can say a mechanic would have been very helpful. A typical round would be:
head to tech 2 or 3 races before yours,
get through tech by the end of race 2 before yours, put tires on,
wait for clock to start at beginning of race before yours, apply tire traction,
head to waiting que 2 minutes before end of race,
then 2 minutes to put your car on the track climb the driver stand, check/in & warm up, race, then take car to post tech and turn-marshal.
by then you've spent 25-35 minutes away from the pits, I was usually ready to down a lot of liquids after standing on the asphalt for 7 minutes.
That left about an hour to go completely over your car, recheck every thing, decide if changes are needed, and be ready to do it again. and if you wanted lunch I hope you did not break anything cause lunch was a 30-40 minute ordeal.

So yeah a mechanic would be helpful, not to mention another set of eyes track-side to deliver a second opinion on on-track characteristics.

Also the US was not really behind, unless you consider a few tenths off World Class drivers as lagging, just check out how many drivers were so close to each other, I have a hard time finding a Regional or National stock race with 3 mains separately by less lap time or total laps as the total 8 or 9 mains at the Worlds

Now for a question to the rest of those who feel the US is lagging behind ..... how many of you are running Mod at the regional or national level.
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Old 10-14-2014, 11:57 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theproffesor View Post
Mechanics... when did this turn into 1:1 racing. These are (very complex and exspensive) toy cars. But they are small and not nesrly as complex to work on as a real car. Why do you need a mechanic.
I re-watched the Raywoods video of the 2004 Worlds at Kissimmee last night. The mechanics are nothing new. Besides the obvious Hirosaka combo previously Masami had two mechanics (Hiroshi and Umino) with him after his dad retired at Kissimmee. Hara had Miura along with a bevy of other HPI engineers.

The top Americans looked to be their own wrenches while only a few other top drivers had mechanics.

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Old 10-14-2014, 12:22 PM   #85
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We have a pretty decent mod class in Northern California, regularly getting between 5-10 racers. The tracks are nowhere near the size of Florida, so the feel is quite different. Even the tracks that are bigger like Speedworld have a very different feel.

I was as frustrated as anyone with my performance, finishing 52nd. That said, most of the people that were top 15-20, let's say, had quite a bit of practice on that track.

Having raced against many of the same drivers at the Reedy Race at Tamiya, on a track I consider more "normal" for the U.S., and only being a few tenths off not a full second, I can say this was by far the hardest track I've raced. In terms of literally seeing the track properly, timing of all the races, timing with tech and dealing with 16 sets of tires, the speed, and of course getting a car setup, etc...

Considering how many Americans didn't make the race at all, due to IIC or travel and tire budget issues, I think the showing wasn't that bad.
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Old 10-14-2014, 02:11 PM   #86
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I have run there many times and would agree that seeing the track is difficult based on both the mere size and distance of the track especially the end of the straight. I usually have problems diagnosing my chassis for setup changes with the height of the drivers stand since it is hard to determine how much your car is rolling in the corner. It helps to have a second set of eyes and ears (tire sequel). I also drive better when I can hear my throttles inputs but there forget about it.
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Old 10-14-2014, 02:42 PM   #87
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Each country having its own national championship and then also having ETS with the amount of coverage it gets. Ultimately competition and input from external sources strengthens the breed in my opinion.
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Old 10-14-2014, 02:56 PM   #88
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Have to admit I'm quite surprised at some of the comments in this thread.

People saying you don't have those sort of tracks there… The track IS there, how much closer does it need to be? Yes I know you have a huge country and some racers are a long way from Kissimmee, but anybody with Facebook knows that racers and mechanics flew in from all over the world to test, multiple times before the event.

Can't run mod on your carpet tracks? Elliott Harper flew out there specifically to do some mod carpet testing with the Durango before they released it. Again the video was there for all to see on Facebook.

You think all of our tracks look like an ETS race? Sorry, think again. I've raced in plenty of clubs that can't even get a rectangular hall to race in, one has a cafe in the far left corner, so the track is longer up one side. Some have 1 type of carpet on the main straight and different colours of carpet cut up to fit in the odd shapes of the hall!
Outdoors isn't much different, land is expensive so tracks can be shoved up 1 corner of a funny shaped plot, corner of a field whatever.

Distance is an issue? Check UK fuel prices and cringe at how much it costs us to even get to a track!
(1 US Gallon of Diesel costs about $7.85US currently).

I'm staggered at the suggestion that on carpet the result would have been different, at least in the context of the discussion. I think the only person that's beaten Volker on carpet in the last few years is Hagberg, once. Rheinard is handy on the rug, and didn't Groskamp keep winning the snowbirds?


What I saw what the team that sunk the most time, effort and resources into it win. But they got run very close by a very talented future threat in Coelho.
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Old 10-14-2014, 03:11 PM   #89
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Just like the reign of Masami ended, new and young talent will take over. The question is will US drivers be able to capitalize on that opportunity when the switch occurs.
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Old 10-14-2014, 03:33 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToysRUsKid View Post
This track is nice, where is it?

The way I see it is, if you can run a nitro TC on the track, you can run a mod TC. If the track is running 8th scale, there's no reason not to run a mod TC.
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