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Old 09-14-2005, 04:16 PM   #61
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Well as a non pro level driver I can tell you that the IB vs GP debate can be compared to the Panasonic vs Sanyo debate from years ago. To me the IB's resemble the Panasonic's....Super punch out of the gate and fall off slightly. Now I said slightly dont over react. The GP's are like the Sanyo's, linear through the entire run. I have thought more about why the IB's feel like they fall off slightly. Could it possibly be that they are putting out too much power for our motors to handle?(motor heats up motor goes slower) Is it the motor or the battery that actually is falling off slighly?
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Old 09-14-2005, 05:20 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barry
Well as a non pro level driver I can tell you that the IB vs GP debate can be compared to the Panasonic vs Sanyo debate from years ago. To me the IB's resemble the Panasonic's....Super punch out of the gate and fall off slightly. Now I said slightly dont over react. The GP's are like the Sanyo's, linear through the entire run. I have thought more about why the IB's feel like they fall off slightly. Could it possibly be that they are putting out too much power for our motors to handle?(motor heats up motor goes slower) Is it the motor or the battery that actually is falling off slighly?
It's all in the motor. You need to detune it a bit.
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Old 09-14-2005, 05:21 PM   #63
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Im actually referring to stock and 19 t though but same rules apply.
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Old 09-14-2005, 06:18 PM   #64
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well sounds to me that IB has cured some of their problems from last year. i will have to get both and try them for myself.
as for what the pro's use im not interested because i will never see #s like that and they get the best of the best im sure. i buy new cells every year to be as competitive as i can but i also want them to last the full season.

question for danny
how should the new IB cells be cared for?
thanks
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Old 09-14-2005, 06:27 PM   #65
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It's all on their site- but here's a bit of info:
6A linear charge at 5mV per cell peak detect for 6 cell (3mV for 4 cell)
Discharge at 30-35 amps after your race down to 5.4V (6-cell) or 3.6 (4-cell)
For storage, leave at .9V/cell for weekly use and put 500 seconds of charge in it for prolonged storage.
Hope this helps.
-Josh

EDIT: Did IB devlope this cell specifically for our hobby or for other uses, and our hobby just happened to discover them?

Last edited by josh69162; 09-14-2005 at 06:51 PM. Reason: information correction
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Old 09-14-2005, 06:46 PM   #66
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Actually it's 5mv per cell so 30mv for a pack of 6 cell but we have found that 20mv(.02) works well for a 6 and 4 cell pack. The IB cells take longer to drop back thus generate the same heat as a GP pack set at higher mv setting.
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Old 09-14-2005, 06:48 PM   #67
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From what we understand is that this cell was specifically designed for RC racing and this is the market that IB wants to be competitive. This is why we see them tweak the cells at a rapid pace. They are 100% committed into providing the RC racer with the fastest cells. So far the IB3800 and IB1200 2/3A has achieved that goal and it seems like IB will continue to make improvements.
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Old 09-14-2005, 08:04 PM   #68
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Has anyone actually noted the number of charge/discharge cycles, in race conditions or bench tests, that a good IB3800 pack can go through before a major decrease in performance? Thanks.
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Old 09-14-2005, 08:36 PM   #69
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Hi All,

I recently completed tests on IB cells, I compared the data with GP cells I already have. Below is the report I wrote about the tests and there is some graphs attached at the bottom. I think it was Mr Blonde who talked about the voltage curve differences had it exactly right.

Chris.




IB / GP Cell comparison



Testing was conducted on my Pro Trak which was calibrated specifically for these cells to achieve the highest accuracy possible. I used various charge methods, discharge is fixed at 30A. The data was transferred from my Pro Trak to my old laptop as it was collected (or ďLiveĒ), then after the four cycle test run was complete Iíd take that info and start another test run. I already had data collected from previous cycles of GP cells so I concentrated on obtaining info from the IB cells. If you will look at the pic, this is a screenshot of the monitor program you will see the data from the first four cycle run and the second to fifth cycle on those cells. As you can see in Graph 1 the data looks pretty good, run time 471, Ave voltage 1.17/1.18, etc, all good data for a set of cells.

If you look Graph 1 you will notice that in the beginning of discharge the voltage is very high and slopes down gradually to the end of the discharge.

I ran off a few cycles using various charging methods but these cells seem to like a regular linear charge method best. All of the exotic charging techniques I tried did not improve any of the discharge data and in some cases the data was very slightly worse.

Voltage Comparison

The interesting information started to emerge when I compared the data between the two types of cells. Graph 2 shows a direct graphical comparison of pack voltage between the two sets of cells. As you can see the GP cells fall off faster at the beginning of discharge but as the cells get to the plateau the GPís hold their voltage better than the IBís.

Voltage Difference

After seeing graph 2 I wanted to know what the actual difference in voltage was at any given point in the discharge curve, Graph 3 emphasizes the difference between the two types of cells much more dramatically than a straight comparison of voltages. This graph looks a bit strange at first but if you look at the lines above the 0.0 point the red line is where the IBís have more voltage than the GPís and the blue line above the 0.0 point is where the GPís have more voltage than the IBís. The IBís start off the run with more voltage than the GPís but at the end of the run the GPís have better voltage. Voltage translates directly into speed as the number of volts available to the motor determines what the max RPM of the motor is going to be. It will also have an effect on punch because when you start with lower volts, the voltage will depress more under heavy load.

The question to ask here is exactly how much run time you have left at the end of your race as looking at the graph will lead you to believe that if you have 130 seconds left when you finish the race then at no point will GPsí have more voltage during the competitive race. However, if you deep into discharge at the end of the run the GP cells will be faster. Personally, I want to be fast at the end of the race.

IB Equalizing

Graph 4 speaks for itself.

You lose a lot of everything after equalizing these cells, run time (70 seconds), voltage (almost 0.2 at any given snapshot in time). I donít think I need to add anything here. I have not collected any data on dead shorting at this time. You will notice that the voltage drops more abruptly at the end of discharge. This will give a false impression of higher average voltage. The calculated average for these cells was 1.18v but as you can see in reality these cells were not even close to either the GPís or the unequalised IBís (the same set of cells).


End Comments

What is clear is that both types of cells are very good, I know GP3700ís much better as I have been using them for 6 months or so and Iím very happy with them. Iím certain you will hear similar things about the IB cells particularly from sponsored drivers and matchers who use them. I like being able to equalize the GP cells as unequalized cells can get out of balance which may cause overcharging in certain cells within the pack.
Attached Thumbnails
3700's or 3800's-graph-1.jpg   3700's or 3800's-graph-2.jpg   3700's or 3800's-graph-3.jpg   3700's or 3800's-graph-4.jpg  
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Old 09-14-2005, 09:28 PM   #70
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Great stuff, great graphs to look at.

I have been discharging and cycling at 35 amps lately and the 300 sec voltage is very high on the IB's. Anything over 300 I dont worry about for stock sedan or stock 12th-but maybe I am wrong.
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Old 09-14-2005, 09:31 PM   #71
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Ray,

I go very deep into discharge with 12th stock, if i have 30 seconds left after I race it's unusual or my car is pushing like a pig. (happens occasionally). You are right about stock sedan but I drive a few classes and I want cells that will work for all of them.

Chris
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Old 09-14-2005, 09:40 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crimson eagle
Ray,

I go very deep into discharge with 12th stock, if i have 30 seconds left after I race it's unusual or my car is pushing like a pig. (happens occasionally). You are right about stock sedan but I drive a few classes and I want cells that will work for all of them.

Chris

I wonder if what you potentially gain the first 300 seconds of discharge doesnt far outweight what you might lose in the last 3-laps. Usually as you know your about flat punched near the end of an 8-minute race as it is and your just driving as efficient lines as you can to maxmimze speed. Just a thought. Voltage is still very important-but not as important as clean lines.
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Old 09-14-2005, 09:47 PM   #73
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Ray,

Let's say you go 80 seconds with less voltage. This 80 seconds is at 30 amps. 12th stock average discharge is around 23 Amps I think. This will be around 110seconds on the track maybe? that will be around 7 to 10 laps being slower than GP powered drivers. I want to be fast at the end of the race.

Chris
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Old 09-14-2005, 10:02 PM   #74
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Citing graph 2- If you look, you're average voltage with the IB's is higher for the better part of 315 seconds (5 minutes and 15 seconds, a very typical TC race). I'm 100% positive this will outweigh any disadvantages you experience for the latter 150 seconds of the discharge curve. And when was this test taken?
-Josh
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Old 09-14-2005, 10:21 PM   #75
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So the question is- would you rather be faster for 6 minutes and slower for 2 minutes or faster for 2 minutes and slower for 6 minutes???? Is this a trick question? lol.
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