R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-03-2005, 01:23 AM   #196
Tech Master
 
johnbull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Malta. G.C.
Posts: 1,762
Default

I have read pages about GP3700s and IB3800 and the pros and cons of each.

I have spent hours discussing the same subject with other enthusisats all over the world.

Finally I got some good quality IB3800s to complement my GP3700s and have been able to do some unbiased back to back tests of my own.

The car used is a TC4 BMI. Speedo Novak GTX. Motors Checkpoint 7 x 1. The driver is the local champion - 7 times - so he knows the car and the track well enough to be consistant. No modifications were made to car, motors or gearing.

Cells used were top brand GP3700s and fresh and recent top brand IB3800s. Both brands win regularly in International races, and I know that both brands supply me with good products, so we are talking about the best of both.The 3700s have had 12 runs on them and the 3800s were brand new.

Here are the results of 3 five minute runs, all run under the same conditions. All 3 runs were timed with the same Orion Pro Lap counter.

RUN 1. GP3700. Fresh motor and new Take Off 22s. Race time 19 laps in 304. Best lap 15.37. Race Average 16.03.

RUN 2. IB3800. Fresh motor and new Take Off 22s. Race time 19 laps in 304. Best lap 15.37. Race average 16.02.

RUN 3. GP3700. CS22s on 2nd run. Fresh motor. Race time 19 laps in 309. Best lap 15.40. Race average 16.27.

Runs 1 and 2 were faultless, but Run 3 had a couple of mistakes in the first couple of laps, lap 1 in 17 and lap 2 in 19, with the fastest 15.4 coming on lap 5 so performance was pretty much the same if you take that into consideration.

So what are the conclusions so far.

Basically, there is nothing in it. A closer look at the lap times will show the IB to be very quick in the first 2 minutes then loose about half a second a lap for the remaining 3 minutes, finishing very strongly. The GP never seems to have the outright blast of the IB over the first couple of laps but remains much more consistant till about 2 laps from the end, when it starts to drop off a bit.

So what are we going to use. Your guess is as good as mine.

All I have proved so far is that all the praisers of GP over IB, and vice versa, are doing so for their own personal business reasons. Both cells are equally brilliant.

Oh by the way, on my Pro Trak the IBs seemed better, but it was not the case on the track as the lap times showed.

Anyone else been doing any UNBIASED testing ?
johnbull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2005, 02:14 AM   #197
Tech Master
 
Anders Myrberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Manīs best friend: Hugo Myrberg
Posts: 1,987
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbull
RUN 1. GP3700. Fresh motor and new Take Off 22s. Race time 19 laps in 304. Best lap 15.37. Race Average 16.03.

RUN 2. IB3800. Fresh motor and new Take Off 22s. Race time 19 laps in 304. Best lap 15.37. Race average 16.02.
Itīs all about average!, and clearly shows the IB are faster

Just kidding.
Ityīs great that there are at least two different brands, so we have a healthy competition for furter development and lower prices.
I very much like to add that you need to know that this kind of comperison is not the perfect one either, as you have to know how to set up the motors for the different batteries.

Our ( Andreas and Joels that is.. ) experiance is that with IB cells, we can increase speed with higher wind, compare to GPīs.
Anders Myrberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2005, 02:19 AM   #198
Tech Elite
 
stefan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Bavaria, Germany
Posts: 3,273
Send a message via AIM to stefan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Rimer
That's funny... Orion has just released IB 3800's here in the US. We haven't had a batch that false peaked in over two months. The voltage numbers we are seeing are off the charts. Sales are through the roof. Repeat customers order more each time. Consumers are thrilled. Shucks, I guess we Americans are just plain dumb. Oh well, maybe some day we will wise up.
After this particular posting, I wouldn't get my hopes up too much for at least yourselves, Mr.Jaco!
stefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2005, 02:53 AM   #199
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 225
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbull
I have read pages about GP3700s and IB3800 and the pros and cons of each.

I have spent hours discussing the same subject with other enthusisats all over the world.

Finally I got some good quality IB3800s to complement my GP3700s and have been able to do some unbiased back to back tests of my own.

The car used is a TC4 BMI. Speedo Novak GTX. Motors Checkpoint 7 x 1. The driver is the local champion - 7 times - so he knows the car and the track well enough to be consistant. No modifications were made to car, motors or gearing.

Cells used were top brand GP3700s and fresh and recent top brand IB3800s. Both brands win regularly in International races, and I know that both brands supply me with good products, so we are talking about the best of both.The 3700s have had 12 runs on them and the 3800s were brand new.

Here are the results of 3 five minute runs, all run under the same conditions. All 3 runs were timed with the same Orion Pro Lap counter.

RUN 1. GP3700. Fresh motor and new Take Off 22s. Race time 19 laps in 304. Best lap 15.37. Race Average 16.03.

RUN 2. IB3800. Fresh motor and new Take Off 22s. Race time 19 laps in 304. Best lap 15.37. Race average 16.02.

RUN 3. GP3700. CS22s on 2nd run. Fresh motor. Race time 19 laps in 309. Best lap 15.40. Race average 16.27.

Runs 1 and 2 were faultless, but Run 3 had a couple of mistakes in the first couple of laps, lap 1 in 17 and lap 2 in 19, with the fastest 15.4 coming on lap 5 so performance was pretty much the same if you take that into consideration.

So what are the conclusions so far.

Basically, there is nothing in it. A closer look at the lap times will show the IB to be very quick in the first 2 minutes then loose about half a second a lap for the remaining 3 minutes, finishing very strongly. The GP never seems to have the outright blast of the IB over the first couple of laps but remains much more consistant till about 2 laps from the end, when it starts to drop off a bit.

So what are we going to use. Your guess is as good as mine.

All I have proved so far is that all the praisers of GP over IB, and vice versa, are doing so for their own personal business reasons. Both cells are equally brilliant.

Oh by the way, on my Pro Trak the IBs seemed better, but it was not the case on the track as the lap times showed.

Anyone else been doing any UNBIASED testing ?
Were your IB3800 the 2nd generation or 1st?

We have been running the 2nd generation and have found that they dont drop off after 2mins like the 1st generation did.Also we have found them to have better performance on the track than the GP3700.
Nick Simpson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2005, 03:43 AM   #200
Tech Master
 
johnbull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Malta. G.C.
Posts: 1,762
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Simpson
Were your IB3800 the 2nd generation or 1st?

We have been running the 2nd generation and have found that they dont drop off after 2mins like the 1st generation did.Also we have found them to have better performance on the track than the GP3700.
They were sold to me as 2nd gen and I have no reason to doubt my supplier.

Anders, if I understand you correctly does this mean you would run an 8 turn motor with IBs and a 7 with GPs, for example ?
johnbull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2005, 04:44 AM   #201
Tech Master
 
Anders Myrberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Manīs best friend: Hugo Myrberg
Posts: 1,987
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbull
They were sold to me as 2nd gen and I have no reason to doubt my supplier.

Anders, if I understand you correctly does this mean you would run an 8 turn motor with IBs and a 7 with GPs, for example ?

Thatīs correct.
They used 8 turn i Rubber and have 580 mAh left, and 9 turn i Modified and have 700 mAh left.
Anders Myrberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2005, 07:05 AM   #202
Tech Master
 
johnbull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Malta. G.C.
Posts: 1,762
Default

That's very interesting, thanks.

We have run 8 x 1 with the GP3700 and have been almost just as quick as with 7 x 1 - best lap with 7 x 1 = 15.4, best lap with 8 x 1 = 15.5 but with plenty left and faster last few laps.
johnbull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2005, 07:11 AM   #203
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8,364
Trader Rating: 17 (100%+)
Default

I can tell you that from my limited experience in running the 3800's in stock and 19T that I had similar results. They feel balls to the wall for the first few minutes and then level out. I would not say they fall off though. My 3700's feel the same from the time I flick the switch to the end. In the end my lap times are probably better with the 3700's only because I am not as good on the wheel to take advantage of that extra juice in the beginning. That being said, I do plan on running both cells this winter.
__________________
Tekno|JConcepts|TeamTrinity|BOOMrc
Bob Barry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2005, 07:28 AM   #204
Tech Master
 
tex1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 1,156
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to tex1
Post Batts compaired

I have conducted independant test using different methods with both cells.
We have just completed our second race weekend in our series and should be able to gather great data on our test packs.
I can tell you this.
In our 4 IB packs, the batteries peaked at a higher voltage and more mAh.
From the driver's reports they said the packs did feel more "punchy".

I know personally, I took the worst 2 packs of each.
Cycled them and made sure every cell was good. (they both got resoldered)

With the GP I set TQ on a fresh motor with a perfect run.
On the IB I hit a bump in the first lap and put myself on the board and hung there for over 8 seconds. I ran the leader down and passed to pull away.
This run beat the TQ by 10 seconds!
I used the same motor without touching it or the car as a whole.

This week will feature the use of a West Mountain Radio CBA.
I will chart each cell individually of all of our packs. (no hiding anything here!)
I will post results by the end of the week for your review.

TEX
__________________
www.indyrcworld.net
Indy RC World 2.0 - Garland, TX
T&T RC Cars - Plano, TX
(972) 271-4844
tex1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2005, 07:41 AM   #205
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 793
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan
After this particular posting, I wouldn't get my hopes up too much for at least yourselves, Mr.Jaco!
What???? If this is an insult, please repost it so it makes sense and I can be offended. Thanks.
Jack Rimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2005, 08:04 AM   #206
Suspended
 
McSmooth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Served Fresh Daily
Posts: 1,631
Talking

Jack:

Isn't it amazing that anyone can spend $700 on a TurboMatcher and instantly become a battery authority?

Welcome to my (former) world!

Sheesh.
McSmooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2005, 08:33 AM   #207
Tech Master
 
Anders Myrberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Manīs best friend: Hugo Myrberg
Posts: 1,987
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by McSmooth
Jack:

Isn't it amazing that anyone can spend $700 on a TurboMatcher and instantly become a battery authority?

Welcome to my (former) world!

Sheesh.
Perhaps he have the knowledge long before he purchased the TurboMatcher? Thatīs possible!
Anders Myrberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2005, 08:45 AM   #208
Suspended
 
McSmooth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Served Fresh Daily
Posts: 1,631
Default

My post wasn't an attack on Jack. We've been friends for quite a long time. Just want to be sure that's understood.

It was directed at any other fly-by-night battery 'experts'.

Such as....the ability to put 6 cells into spring-loaded holders and pushing a button does not equal knowledge.
McSmooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2005, 09:14 AM   #209
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: pa
Posts: 295
Default

won the a this weekend in 4 cell stock at our local track using smc ibs my fusion 3700 s tqed in my friends car thease were the 1st run on them i was impressed also glad to see fusion will be doing the cell now i will learn to re do my motor tuning to work with this cell ohms law voltage is king and the ib has it!!!! gp listen up theres a new sherrif in town!
pony klr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2005, 09:59 AM   #210
Tech Elite
 
EddieO's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,414
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Turbomatchers only cost $550 and hold only 4 cells.....


Later EddieO
__________________
www.teambrood.com
EddieO is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
4 Packs, GP 3700's TOEBSTER2 R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 2 12-15-2006 02:29 PM
3700's shift Electric On-Road 2 10-13-2006 04:18 AM
GP 3700's duggyb Rookie Zone 17 05-21-2006 07:27 PM
LRP V-TECH 3700's scoobydo Electric On-Road 3 02-12-2005 02:25 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 11:42 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net