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Old 08-26-2014, 09:54 AM   #16
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So you want to create a class that has more power and speed than current mod 12th? And you want to accomplish this by using a larger/heavier battery? Good luck.

I am all for discussing ways to make mod 12th more difficult, but I don't think making the cars faster is the answer. Using a larger battery also means your life will be a living hell when traction comes up.
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Old 08-26-2014, 11:36 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by LloydLoar View Post
So you want to create a class that has more power and speed than current mod 12th? And you want to accomplish this by using a larger/heavier battery? Good luck.

I am all for discussing ways to make mod 12th more difficult, but I don't think making the cars faster is the answer. Using a larger battery also means your life will be a living hell when traction comes up.
There seem to be two different ideas going on in this thread. The first is as you described: a larger, heavier battery (shorty 2s). On a high traction surface, that will reduce cornering speeds due to traction rolling, as you observed. The only advantage that this idea has over 1s LiPo is that someone might already have a shorty 2s, and they don't have to purchase a voltage booster or receiver battery. Personally I don't think that either of those is much of an advantage, especially given the very low cost of a 1s LiPo and voltage booster.

The other idea is to use a 2s LiPo in a 1s case. These are not widely available in the US, and as a result are more expensive than a 1s LiPo. The energy density is essentially the same, so the car's power-to-weight ratio will be no different once an appropriate motor is selected (about double the turn count for 2s versus 1s). This idea requires the purchase of the 2s-in-a-1s-case, but again saves the cost of a voltage booster or receiver battery. Considering that voltage boosters can be had for less than $15, that's not much of an advantage.

So I'm still not sure what we have to gain from any of this.

P.S. I really thought your F5 and L5 were beautiful instruments.
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Old 08-26-2014, 11:49 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by howardcano View Post
There seem to be two different ideas going on in this thread. The first is as you described: a larger, heavier battery (shorty 2s). On a high traction surface, that will reduce cornering speeds due to traction rolling, as you observed. The only advantage that this idea has over 1s LiPo is that someone might already have a shorty 2s, and they don't have to purchase a voltage booster or receiver battery. Personally I don't think that either of those is much of an advantage, especially given the very low cost of a 1s LiPo and voltage booster.

The other idea is to use a 2s LiPo in a 1s case. These are not widely available in the US, and as a result are more expensive than a 1s LiPo. The energy density is essentially the same, so the car's power-to-weight ratio will be no different once an appropriate motor is selected (about double the turn count for 2s versus 1s). This idea requires the purchase of the 2s-in-a-1s-case, but again saves the cost of a voltage booster or receiver battery. Considering that voltage boosters can be had for less than $15, that's not much of an advantage.

So I'm still not sure what we have to gain from any of this.

P.S. I really thought your F5 and L5 were beautiful instruments.
I want the higher voltage. I run F1 which is 21.5 on 2S. While the car is heavier I don't expect 17.5 on 2S to even be close to what a mod car running a boosted 3.5 will do. If it is so be it. I have no intention of racing this and am not proposing a new class, just a fun car to run on practice days using a bunch of stuff I already have laying around. This has nothing to do with what "we have to gain". It is all about what I have to gain and it sounds like there are a couple others that have similar things in mind.
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Old 08-26-2014, 11:54 AM   #19
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I want the higher voltage. I run F1 which is 21.5 on 2S. While the car is heavier I don't expect 17.5 on 2S to even be close to what a mod car running a boosted 3.5 will do. If it is so be it. I have no intention of racing this and am not proposing a new class, just a fun car to run on practice days using a bunch of stuff I already have laying around. This has nothing to do with what "we have to gain". It is all about what I have to gain and it sounds like there are a couple others that have similar things in mind.
Understood. I was responding to LL's comment about creating a new class.

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Also looking for a 2s lipo in a similar size to the 1s.
Here is a 2s-in-a-1s-case for you (and everyone else that wants to have fun with it):
http://www.amain.com/ProTek-R-C-2S-S...200mAh/p271097
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Old 08-26-2014, 11:55 AM   #20
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Understood. I was responding to LL's comment about creating a new class.

Here is a 2s-in-a-1s-case for you (and everyone else that wants to have fun with it):
http://www.amain.com/ProTek-R-C-2S-S...200mAh/p271097
Sorry I misunderstood you and thanks for the link.
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:05 PM   #21
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Sorry I misunderstood you and thanks for the link.
You'll notice that 2s LiPo is on sale. I suspect that's because they haven't sold well! If you decide to go with it, please post your impressions either here or over in the 1/12 thread. There are plenty of us that are curious about it.
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:15 PM   #22
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There seem to be two different ideas going on in this thread. The first is as you described: a larger, heavier battery (shorty 2s). On a high traction surface, that will reduce cornering speeds due to traction rolling, as you observed. The only advantage that this idea has over 1s LiPo is that someone might already have a shorty 2s, and they don't have to purchase a voltage booster or receiver battery. Personally I don't think that either of those is much of an advantage, especially given the very low cost of a 1s LiPo and voltage booster.

The other idea is to use a 2s LiPo in a 1s case. These are not widely available in the US, and as a result are more expensive than a 1s LiPo. The energy density is essentially the same, so the car's power-to-weight ratio will be no different once an appropriate motor is selected (about double the turn count for 2s versus 1s). This idea requires the purchase of the 2s-in-a-1s-case, but again saves the cost of a voltage booster or receiver battery. Considering that voltage boosters can be had for less than $15, that's not much of an advantage.

So I'm still not sure what we have to gain from any of this.

P.S. I really thought your F5 and L5 were beautiful instruments.
Thank you for saying exactly how I feel. I really don't see what this buys you as a class when compared to the currently existing 12th scale offerings. From all of the original 'skirt' comments in the early posts, it sounds like they want it to be an even more difficult version of mod 12th (which really isn't what this hobby needs when normal mod 12th is already suffering from low attendance.)

Maybe the best way to word this is that I don't think the 2s vs 1s discussion is what is hurting mod 12th racing across the US As such, why not focus on the items that might actually be keeping people from racing?

People are not turning away from mod 12th because they are afraid of buying another battery...

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I want the higher voltage. I run F1 which is 21.5 on 2S. While the car is heavier I don't expect 17.5 on 2S to even be close to what a mod car running a boosted 3.5 will do. If it is so be it. I have no intention of racing this and am not proposing a new class, just a fun car to run on practice days using a bunch of stuff I already have laying around. This has nothing to do with what "we have to gain". It is all about what I have to gain and it sounds like there are a couple others that have similar things in mind.
I completely understand this point-of-view. The part(s) I don't understand are the items you specifically mention re: new class and racing, which is what this thread seemed to start out with. The part about being able to use the same packs makes complete sense to me. As Howard mentions above, I just don't see what this buys you as a new class when compared to current 12th offerings. Your justification makes sense from a practice day fooling around POV, I just don't get the racing side of the discussion
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:17 PM   #23
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You'll notice that 2s LiPo is on sale. I suspect that's because they haven't sold well! If you decide to go with it, please post your impressions either here or over in the 1/12 thread. There are plenty of us that are curious about it.
I'm not surprised by that since there is a battery standard that works pretty well already. I'd never propose another battery standard for racing as I've seen what our volunteer tech people have on their plate already. Had I not a pile of 17.5 motors I'd probably stick with 1S and just go to a faster motor. If I pick up this pack I'll make sure to post my impressions.
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:19 PM   #24
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You'll notice that 2s LiPo is on sale. I suspect that's because they haven't sold well! If you decide to go with it, please post your impressions either here or over in the 1/12 thread. There are plenty of us that are curious about it.
I have one

I haven't used it with a true mod motor, but I would be worried about runtime with the lower capacity and a faster wind if you still tried to run eight minutes.

There is no denying that it is a lot of fun to play around with, but I still don't see what it buys wrt racing.

Helluva lot of fun, though.
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:28 PM   #25
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I completely understand this point-of-view. The part(s) I don't understand are the items you specifically mention re: new class and racing, which is what this thread seemed to start out with. The part about being able to use the same packs makes complete sense to me. As Howard mentions above, I just don't see what this buys you as a new class when compared to current 12th offerings. Your justification makes sense from a practice day fooling around POV, I just don't get the racing side of the discussion
Nope, I think we are on the same page and it might be my fault for not being clear. I've no issue with the current classes as they are. This thread hit on a couple of the things I want to do. The other people might be viewing this from a racing perspective while I'm just trying to integrate the ideas into a fun track car using a lot of not current, $0 value parts I already have.

Last edited by Chaz955i; 08-26-2014 at 12:30 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 08-26-2014, 01:04 PM   #26
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You'll notice that 2s LiPo is on sale. I suspect that's because they haven't sold well! If you decide to go with it, please post your impressions either here or over in the 1/12 thread. There are plenty of us that are curious about it.
FYI, I have been running the 1s shorty size 2s packs (that were originally designed for 1/10 pan car if my understanding is correct) in my off road stock buggy for roughly 12 months, and absolutely love them! Knocks 69grams off the otherwise portly 22 and enables me to get close to the lower weight limit (with ti hardware and aluminum diff/axle setup from mip).

I will say, that in stock buggy the power as awesome and the weight advantage is a plus- gives great accel off the corners, but, there is a penalty in the last minute of a 7 min main where I notice a small deficiency in power as the battery voltage slides off the ridge in the power curve. On average I replace 1800mah in the 3000mah battery after 7min main.

SO... take that for what it's worth. From my standpoint, no complaints in the performance of these cells. Not sure how they would perform in a Outlaw 1/12. I'm sure they would be awesome in the beginning, but considering how strapped you can drive these cars, they might not last 7 mins. in that config.
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Old 08-26-2014, 01:13 PM   #27
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Had I not a pile of 17.5 motors I'd probably stick with 1S and just go to a faster motor. If I pick up this pack I'll make sure to post my impressions.
It might be cheaper to just pick up a used motor. I've purchased many here on RCTech for $30 or less, and there are plenty available in the turn count range that you might want. And when you are done with it you can sell it for nearly the same price. That won't be true with a new LiPo.
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Old 08-26-2014, 01:27 PM   #28
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It might be cheaper to just pick up a used motor. I've purchased many here on RCTech for $30 or less, and there are plenty available in the turn count range that you might want. And when you are done with it you can sell it for nearly the same price. That won't be true with a new LiPo.
That is an excellent point. I'll have to check my ESC to see what it can handle and I already have a 1S with very few cycles.
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Old 08-26-2014, 01:27 PM   #29
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I'm not upset with the world, I just want to see 12th scale come back everywhere. I think the chassis can handle it. The CRC Gen X LE is getting an enema. Time for turbo!

So, I'm going to propose a 12th scale 2S shorty boosted with turbo class. YOU have to decide what motor the TRACK needs. After running my Roadkill 10 for over a week, I have pity for the little guys. Sure 12th mod is cool, why can't it be cooler. I took my skirt off August 15, 2014 to run a Mod 235 Pro10 pan car indoor. You know what, I like it.
Yet you want to see 1/12 make a comeback.....Im confused why split what is already a small elite class.....

We already have this problem with Electric racing...A class for everyone. Most series races sport now 12 to 16 different classes and most barley fill an A-main.
But hey if you track is for it....go with it.
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Old 08-30-2014, 02:32 PM   #30
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an example of 12th Scale Outlaw


http://www.rctech.net/forum/13480293-post1073.html



Electronic Setup
http://www.rctech.net/forum/13480337-post1076.html



Complete Build
http://www.rctech.net/forum/13502436-post1088.html



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