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Old 08-12-2014, 05:47 AM   #46
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Looks like you've already made your purchases, but for anyone else in a similar boat:

It can take years to get to the front (and most never get there). By the time your driving skill is good enough to compete at the front, any equipment you buy now will most likely be long gone. Probably the only bits you'll still have will be radio, charger and tools, so thats where it's worth spending the cash for decent kit.

For everything else... just get stuff thats strong, reliable and easy to set up, as that's what you really need, not a motor that's 0.01s faster. You'll gain far more by being on track with reliable kit and an easy to drive car.
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Old 08-12-2014, 06:39 AM   #47
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just buy whatever is in my pit... you won't be disappointed.
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Old 08-12-2014, 01:40 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
just buy whatever is in my pit... you won't be disappointed.
+1
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Old 08-12-2014, 04:18 PM   #49
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Quick question.
I know that when you advance the timing on the back of your motor it increases the rpm of the motor and subsequently increases your top speed.

Am I right in assuming, that because the physical gearing ratio hasn’t changed and you have gained top end speed you are somehow trading in torque / acceleration attributes to get this extra top end speed

OR

Are you physically just drawing more current / power from the battery due to the higher timing and with more power consumption come more speed?

Also how does this differ from turning up the timing on a speed controller? I know that I have to run 0 timing as I’m in Blinky class but I just thought it would be nice to know the differences between the two timing methods. Sorry if these are basic questions but in model aeroplane flying you really don’t play with timing much and it’s more difficult to notice if / what difference it makes
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Old 08-12-2014, 04:48 PM   #50
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the physical gearing ratio hasn’t changed and you have gained top end speed you are somehow trading in torque / acceleration attributes to get this extra top end speed
.
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Old 08-12-2014, 04:50 PM   #51
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Static timing on a motor raises the power band in the RPM range and gives you higher max RPM, but at the expense of low-end torque and low-rpm efficiency. Timing in your ESC is dynamic, only advancing at high RPM to get the best of both worlds. Mastery of this dynamic timing advance makes Stock racing nearly as fast as Mod in some cases. This process only really applies to sensored brushless systems.
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Old 08-12-2014, 05:13 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by rcjetman View Post
Am I right in assuming, that because the physical gearing ratio hasn’t changed and you have gained top end speed you are somehow trading in torque / acceleration attributes to get this extra top speed.
As said, this is correct. The other thing you "gain" with advanced timing is a lot of heat. This is why you see people often "temping" their motors during testing. They would be slowly upping the wick on timing (or changing gear ratio) and keeping an eye on motor temperature.

HH is a pretty short and twisty track, so ultimate top end speed is definitely not the answer.

You want to have a FDR somewhere in huge region of 4.2 give or take 5% at HH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcjetman View Post
Also how does this differ from turning up the timing on a speed controller? I know that I have to run 0 timing as I’m in Blinky class but I just thought it would be nice to know the differences between the two timing methods.
Good answer above. Think of ESC controlled timing as the equivalent of variable valve timing in a car. Think heavy cammed V8 that idles bad vs a, say, Honda VTEC (yo!) that idles well, but then revs to 9000rpm and makes power up there too.

Sorta

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Originally Posted by rcjetman View Post
Sorry if these are basic questions but in model aeroplane flying you really don’t play with timing much and it’s more difficult to notice if / what difference it makes
You are asking the exact same questions I had around 4-5months ago. Difference being I had/have time on my hands due to being off work thanks to a really bad injury, so I did a shed load of googling and using the search button above

I wasted some money at the start though. I bought slightly inferior products and then sold them before going all out and getting "the best gear" (which their is no "right" answer of course) and then attempting to hone my skills.

Also, it's up to you where you run of course, but the comments back earlier to give littlehampton a go should be reinforced.

It is a fantastic track. Very open and no boards to deal with. They run only one class of touring car (17.5 blinky) but multiple classes of cars - not just electric ones. I think you would be really interested to take a squizz up close to the 1/5 scale cars.

These would also appeal to your desire to spend money, there are some $7k++ setups floating around in the pits

I know of an awesome car for sale at the moment actually, a full carbon fibre tub 2wd tourer. Bout $2.5-$3k almost ready to go which is very cheap for what it is.

I know it is an RS5 modelsport, just not sure on the exact model. http://www.rs5-modelsport.com/index....=311&Itemid=82

I can get more details if you are at all interested.

Last edited by cplus; 08-12-2014 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 08-12-2014, 11:10 PM   #53
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Thanks for the info regarding timing. Now I know why my car felt sluggish out of the corners but quicker down the straight….. I had the motor at 50 deg timing. Woops.

Cplus : I used to live in Mount Barker’s I actually know the track quite well. I never driven there but i did have a look when a race was on once. The track is definitely a lot bigger and perhaps one day I will come race.

Send me a PM with your phone number, i will give your call when I’m back in Adelaide if you want.

I often go up to Mount Barker on a Saturday in my much faster !!! real toy “ Sunday drive car “ perhaps I can drop in to the track when your racing next and have a look at the track....
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Old 08-12-2014, 11:34 PM   #54
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I usually avoid getting into a subject like this as everyone has a preference, but I can't resist...

My Spec-R S2 has thrown down and killed awesomatix, Mi-5, TC6.2, Tamiya 417-x or whatever their top car is.
I actually want to see where the limit is so..smoked my LRP flow on a hot day, replaced with Hobbywing Justock. Ran faster with a hobbyking motor. Car has only gotten faster as I've gone cheaper. I spend the extra cash on tires.

It's not the gear, it's the nut behind the wheel.
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Old 08-13-2014, 01:33 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcjetman View Post
Thanks for the info regarding timing. Now I know why my car felt sluggish out of the corners but quicker down the straight….. I had the motor at 50 deg timing. Woops.

Cplus : I used to live in Mount Barker’s I actually know the track quite well. I never driven there but i did have a look when a race was on once. The track is definitely a lot bigger and perhaps one day I will come race.

Send me a PM with your phone number, i will give your call when I’m back in Adelaide if you want.

I often go up to Mount Barker on a Saturday in my much faster !!! real toy “ Sunday drive car “ perhaps I can drop in to the track when your racing next and have a look at the track....
rcjetman, this is where the whole motor choices you make will get complicated. As you have stated, there is a lot to learn and it's not just chassis setup. Some very simple equipment that has been overlooked here is gearing options, tire prep, correct tire choice for the surface to be run and proper balance of torque and RPM. All of the fast guys at every track have figured this balance out. Every motor has a sweet spot with regards to timing and gearing. The trick is to find that balance. Your car may have been sluggish with 50 degrees of timing but it may have been due to the FDR relative to motor timing. Have some spur and pinion options on hand and be sure to get good quality gears. Most on the market are pretty decent but surely people have their preference. Since you are now dealing with acceleration via a frictional contact rather than thrust, the right combination becomes more complicated as opposed to just going by the numbers generated by better equipment. An ok motor on it's sweet spot is usually a better performer than a great motor that is not. There is a balance of efficiency and power and once you find that balance the speed will come.
Talk with some of the fast guys at your track and pick up on their methods and theories about tracking down that sweet spot. If you bought a "team" motor, chances are that the optimal timing has already been set. Now it's just a matter of gearing and drive train efficiency.
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Old 08-13-2014, 02:04 AM   #56
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....

Last edited by cplus; 08-13-2014 at 04:44 AM.
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Old 08-13-2014, 02:17 AM   #57
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Racing week in, week out at the same track is what hones your skill IMO.

Putting all your effort into knowing one track, learning its grip levels, car setup etc then branching out to others is what I would do.

Keep changing settings from one track to another all the time kinda spreads your wings out too much and upsets things.

Different things work for different people though.
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Old 08-13-2014, 02:42 AM   #58
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I'm new in on road too, and the whole setup "thing" is to the extreme compared to 1/8 buggy, from which I come from.

Because setups are so individual, and not to get completely lost and trying to adapt to all the good setup advice that are available from the fast guys at the track, I stick with the kit setup or other proven "general" setup for either asphalt and carpet, AND stick with that.

My Tamiya TRF418 and a good proven standard setup is far beyond my capabilities anyway.

If the car behaves stange in parts of the track, or if the better drivers comment on a specific car behavior, I try that single setup tip but go back to the standard setup, if it doesn't work.

If others make opinions on my cars performance based on me driving it, it is probably because of my skills and not the car and setup.

Preferably, I ask one of the better drives to try my car on the track, and if something is really wrong with the car, he will feel it. If he tells you that the car runs OK and doesn't behave in any strange ways, you know your car is basically OK. Maybe not perfected to that drivers personal style, but the good guys can tell if a car is fundamentally running OK or not.
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Old 08-13-2014, 03:12 PM   #59
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Sounds like you have the basic gear covered.

I suggest you try different tyres and bodies. Also the same bodies with different mounting positions.
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:26 PM   #60
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Best setup money can buy? A receipt for all of the rc stuff you have purchased.
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