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Old 09-01-2005, 10:30 AM   #1
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Default which charger?

much more cell master v1 or orion avantage charger?
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Old 09-01-2005, 10:49 AM   #2
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Cell master hands down...
I have a Advantage as my home charger for maintance....but at the track I have the cell master....It just charges better...
This quote is from another thread....But the reason why the cell master is better is fully explained...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus Racing
The Cell Master and Orion Advantage chargers are made by completely different manufacturers. This, I am 100% sure of.

I was not going to post in this thread because we are dealers of the Cell Master and I did not want to make it seem as if I were advertising. No one, however has answered the question of why the Cell Master is a better charger.

The main difference between the MuchMore CM and a charger like the ICE is the super linear current offered by the Cell Master. What this means is that the CM has a pure and constant linear current. A charger such as the ICE will have a linear current something like 55-57 out of every 60 seconds.

Well, why doesn't every charger offer this?
Quite simply, a super linear current would usually result in a much hotter pack at the end of charge. The peak sensitivities offered by a charger such as the ICE are not fine enough to stop the charge at the right time...and a NIMH battery would probably explode or at least, get very hot. Comparatively, the ICE's charging style will result in a cooler battery; the battery will still however build heat as the voltage drops off and the battery peaks.
The MuchMore Cell Master has a more sophisticated delta peak detection program. First, it reads voltage to a thousandth of a volt (ex. 9.115 instead of 9.12). Then, it utilizes much finer delta peak settings to peak the battery.

For example, many racers would normally set their delta peak setting to .030v (30mV for the entire pack) on an ICE, Turbo 35, Integy, LRP, etc charger; with the MuchMore CM, however, you set a delta peak value such as .006 (6mV for the entire pack)...considerably lower/more sensitive than .030v.

You can also see the effects of the super linear current as your battery peaks. With a Turbo 35 for instance, it is common to see a battery fluctuate in voltage as it peaks (with a .03v delta peak setting):

9.14-9.13-9.14-9.13-9.14-9.13-9.12-9.13-9.12-9.13-9.12-9.11-peak cut

With a MMR Cell Master, the voltage does not fluctuate as it peaks, even when it is displayed to the thousandth of a volt. This is how you will see the voltage drop (with a .006v delta peak setting):

9.144-9.143-9.142-9.141-9.140-9.139-9.138-peak cut

Essentially, the CM will deal with the extra heat generated by the super linear current by utilizing these fine peak detection settings. Consequently, you get a battery with a lot of punch without having to overcharge it.

OK, so what difference does it make?

Quite simply, a super linear current will generate more power.

When you combine the CM's super linear current with step charging, you get CTX charging. No other charger offers CTX charging. When you step charge with the Cell Master, you gain more run-time and keep your peak power further into the race without sacrificing much power.

Many racers complain about their batteries feeling "flat" when step charging with other chargers...this is because other chargers do not offer the super linear current to account for the loss in power naturally generated by step charging.

So, with the Cell Master, you can program the charger to get the best of both worlds, or, for that matter, anywhere above, in the middle, or in between (or even below, if this is your wish ).

Does all this make a huge difference to the average racer? probably not. Does it make a difference? probably.
Someone made the comment that all the "big guns" at his track had switched to it. In all honesty, it is the "big guns" who are the ones that care about the little things.

In the middle of this year's Reedy Race, Masami Hirosaka switched from his prototype, super-mega, laptop controlled Yokomo charger to the Cell Master. He had no obligations to MuchMore, as he was not racing for them. After one charge with the CM, the prototype got packed away. He most definitly did not switch because the CM had cool functions.
In reality, a lot of us are just like him; we just go for what we think is faster. A rational racer could probably not be able to justify spending an extra $50, $100, or $200 on a charger...I just don't know that many rational racers that race at big events .

I know that there are a few who may disagree with me...I am just simply here to offer an answer to the "what is the difference" question, and I tried my best to give this answer in good faith.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolol123
much more cell master v1 or orion avantage charger?
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Old 09-01-2005, 11:04 AM   #3
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They are both good. Owned an Orion before, now I own 2 MR Cell Master. Only thing is that with the CM, you don't get motor break-in, will have to spend $ on a Motor Master as well.

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Old 09-01-2005, 11:15 AM   #4
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True true....

But how often are you able to use the motor run in feature when you try to charge....
The Motor master is awesome as well...
But hey if you are looking for an all in one and not as worried about getting the best possible charge than get the APS Dyno Charger S3....It also step charges adn runs in motors and even givesyou RPM...for about the same as the Advantage...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by litespeed-dom
They are both good. Owned an Orion before, now I own 2 MR Cell Master. Only thing is that with the CM, you don't get motor break-in, will have to spend $ on a Motor Master as well.

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Old 09-01-2005, 11:45 AM   #5
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Either way, both are good chargers.


Mr. Shookie: your stuff should go out the first of the week......
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Old 09-01-2005, 02:29 PM   #6
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Mr Shookie, is the s3 a new version of the dyno charge, I was under the impression that the aps had no step charging function. If it is a new version do you know when and where they will be availible?
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Old 09-01-2005, 02:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eforer
Mr Shookie, is the s3 a new version of the dyno charge, I was under the impression that the aps had no step charging function. If it is a new version do you know when and where they will be availible?
As of right now, you can send back your dynocharge for the s3 upgrade, you need to contact Magma Int. for more details.

The new units being produced will have the s3 softwear as far as i know.

EDIT------------------

The s3 does have a different part number, but looks the same.
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Old 09-01-2005, 02:41 PM   #8
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Mike Haynes, my hero!!! Actually, do you know when they'll be availible to the public, you saw my tower of turbos at the regionals, I really don't want to haul both of them to vegas!
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Old 09-01-2005, 03:38 PM   #9
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"Quite simply, a super linear current would usually result in a much hotter pack at the end of charge"

That sounds like a whole lot of BS put together to me... any scientific proof of this? I don't think that 50mA difference in charge current is going to make the battery 10C hotter or colder... Ni-Mh cells heat up during the whole charge process unlike nicads who mainly heat up when they overcharge.

And you don't want to go more than 50-55C at the end of the charge anyway, anything that heats up the pack before it's full can't be good, you want to get as many mAh in there and then only get it nice and warm at the end to get some power. That's why you use step charging, to maximise mAh input and still get the right temperature at the end of the charge.
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Old 09-01-2005, 03:51 PM   #10
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Mucho Grasias Amigo..

-Shookie <><

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tres
Either way, both are good chargers.


Mr. Shookie: your stuff should go out the first of the week......
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Old 09-01-2005, 08:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eforer
Mike Haynes, my hero!!! Actually, do you know when they'll be availible to the public, you saw my tower of turbos at the regionals, I really don't want to haul both of them to vegas!
Email Magma -- [email protected] -- and ask Annie. She can steer you in the right direction.

The units in stock at my lhs are on their way back to get upgraded, and will then be sold as the s3. So its only a matter of a couple of weeks. I would imagine you can get them in time without too much of a hassle.

Here is full details for anyone who is curious.

http://magmarc.com/contents/en-ca/p6...d=38596.746528
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