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Old 07-27-2014, 08:57 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by bertrandsv87 View Post
Why all the confusion guys??? Just get Thunderpower, and call it a day....ok.... Also if these oval guys were dumping 7000mah packs in three minutes, then either the packs were not really 7000mah or their setups were too power hungry, and generated too much heat....
Youd be surprised to know what cells Thunder power uses. It comes from the same factory that some of the other well known lipos come from. They just assembly their small cells into cases here in the US where as others are assembled at the factory. Thats the only difference.

I can assure you that the batteries that the oval guys were dumping were 7000-7100mah at the Snowbirds. Im talking the top oval guys in the country racing open mod. 3.5 motors with 40-45 degrees of speedo timing. They must run a mamba max speedo just to keep them from shutting down....Yea thats right a 90.00 speedo!

Dumping them in 3 minutes was early on in practice when they were trying to figure things out on the track. Once the racing started they could make 4 minutes and maybe 4-5 more laps and then they were done. Most were coming off the track with 25-30 seconds of battery left at 35amps.

Its how oval guys run open mod. The most speed and power out of the motor and battery and barely make time!

EA
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Old 07-27-2014, 10:21 PM   #32
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That works out to 140 amp draw. Considering there's 150 amp 1S speedos out there, I believe it.

Eric, if oval racers tune their 13.5's for 20A free rev, what would you do for 1/12 17.5 on road? I'm thinking between 2-3, but never tried it.
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Old 07-27-2014, 11:41 PM   #33
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Wow.... I guess the competition at that level is way too much for the current electronics/ battery combo...... I burn 4000 mah at most running my mod cars for six minutes on asphalt.... 7000mah is overkill for esc/motors/etc..........
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Youd be surprised to know what cells Thunder power uses. It comes from the same factory that some of the other well known lipos come from. They just assembly their small cells into cases here in the US where as others are assembled at the factory. Thats the only difference.

I can assure you that the batteries that the oval guys were dumping were 7000-7100mah at the Snowbirds. Im talking the top oval guys in the country racing open mod. 3.5 motors with 40-45 degrees of speedo timing. They must run a mamba max speedo just to keep them from shutting down....Yea thats right a 90.00 speedo!

Dumping them in 3 minutes was early on in practice when they were trying to figure things out on the track. Once the racing started they could make 4 minutes and maybe 4-5 more laps and then they were done. Most were coming off the track with 25-30 seconds of battery left at 35amps.

Its how oval guys run open mod. The most speed and power out of the motor and battery and barely make time!

EA
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Old 07-28-2014, 02:01 AM   #34
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rumor has it that the open mod cars were running hand wound 2.5 on a 17.5 stator. How much motor mattered even at that insane power level. While I did not see anyone dump a pack this year, I have seem them come up short by 20-30 seconds in past birds. Tires last one run or less. Amazing to watch.
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Old 07-28-2014, 04:45 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by EAMotorsports View Post
Youd be surprised to know what cells Thunder power uses. It comes from the same factory that some of the other well known lipos come from. They just assembly their small cells into cases here in the US where as others are assembled at the factory. That's the only difference.
EA
Interesting But does that not mean that there could also be a difference in the quality in the assembly of the packs/soldering etc?

Do you know how many other well known manufactures use the same cells?
I order my TP's from Germany and they work out a lot cheaper than ORCA, Reedy etc
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Old 07-28-2014, 05:00 AM   #36
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hi guys, i have been watching this thread with interest and have decided the time is right to add my 2 cents worth. I am by no means an expert or even a professional so i will just add to the thread what i have experienced.
As a general rule C rating are a handy thing to have, especially for newbe drivers, C ratings are real and are a good guide but should not be taken as gospel, in my HPI Vorza (castle 2200kv system) anything decent worked minimum 30 c, we used 65c turnigy to great effect and they are good value for a high powered 1/8 offroad setup.
On road is a completely different proposition, current draws are much higher due to all the traction available, i run a modified Xray t4 on a large outdoor track in a foam tyre lola body class, these cars draw a lot of power and even though this car is less then half the weight of a 1/8 offroader the same 65 c turnigy battery that worked well in the vorza will not stand up to 5 minutes hard racing, it would dump a couple of minutes in and then they would run again after they had cooled down. We need 80 to 90 c cells to compete and even these batteries have been known to be destroyed, ( excessive swelling ) and we have seen this with various 90c batteries including Orca , intellect and orion/nvision, the current draw is so extreme i use a tekin RX8 1/8 esc in this car to handle the loads. we also experimented in a 1/8 onroad class but this proved to be very hard on esc and batteries, (i destroyed 2 castle MMM esc in a month and a mate killed 2 rx8 tekins in 2 runs!,and some of my batteries just are not the same after 1 or 2 uses in this insane power hungry beast) i didnt data log but the current spikes i am assuming would have been well in excess of 100a maybe way higher. ( rx8 is meant to be 220a and could not cope with demands neither could a castle MMM , note the damage was done on 4s voltage, 6s was a lot more reliable, higher voltager = less current for the same work)
bottom line is experiment, if you race try to buy the best or what the others are using.
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Old 07-28-2014, 05:45 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by oldenuff View Post
hi guys, i have been watching this thread with interest and have decided the time is right to add my 2 cents worth. I am by no means an expert or even a professional so i will just add to the thread what i have experienced.
As a general rule C rating are a handy thing to have, especially for newbe drivers, C ratings are real and are a good guide but should not be taken as gospel, in my HPI Vorza (castle 2200kv system) anything decent worked minimum 30 c, we used 65c turnigy to great effect and they are good value for a high powered 1/8 offroad setup.
On road is a completely different proposition, current draws are much higher due to all the traction available, i run a modified Xray t4 on a large outdoor track in a foam tyre lola body class, these cars draw a lot of power and even though this car is less then half the weight of a 1/8 offroader the same 65 c turnigy battery that worked well in the vorza will not stand up to 5 minutes hard racing, it would dump a couple of minutes in and then they would run again after they had cooled down. We need 80 to 90 c cells to compete and even these batteries have been known to be destroyed, ( excessive swelling ) and we have seen this with various 90c batteries including Orca , intellect and orion/nvision, the current draw is so extreme i use a tekin RX8 1/8 esc in this car to handle the loads. we also experimented in a 1/8 onroad class but this proved to be very hard on esc and batteries, (i destroyed 2 castle MMM esc in a month and a mate killed 2 rx8 tekins in 2 runs!,and some of my batteries just are not the same after 1 or 2 uses in this insane power hungry beast) i didnt data log but the current spikes i am assuming would have been well in excess of 100a maybe way higher. ( rx8 is meant to be 220a and could not cope with demands neither could a castle MMM , note the damage was done on 4s voltage, 6s was a lot more reliable, higher voltager = less current for the same work)
bottom line is experiment, if you race try to buy the best or what the others are using.
cheers
oldenuff
Sounds like you need good quality cells, not the highest possible C rating.
Even a paultry 30C battery (can you even get anything like that anymore) should be capable of burst currents (if 'C' those ratings truly meant anything) of 150A assuming a 5000mAh pack.

What you're after is low resistance quality cells.
Who's cells do you use, and who's have been no good?
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Old 07-28-2014, 05:50 AM   #38
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I want to see his car
t4 with rx8 and 4s battery?!?!
Lets see it and a video also .
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Old 07-28-2014, 06:28 AM   #39
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hi guys, jlfx car audio, sorry to create confusion but the 4s was used during my brief ( unspectacular besides smoking esc's ) 1/8 onroad career, WE found tekin rx8 would not work in a brushless 1/8 pan car ( some RCtech member i spoke to in europe found the opposite in his 1/8 onroad but this is how it sometimes goes because sometimes different results can happen for similar setups) and so this is how the rx8's ended up in 1/10 lola bodied touring cars, so sorry to let you down but these cars do only run 2s 540 can mod motors, in saying this i did experiment with 3s lipo on my t4 with a 4 pole 4600kv 540 motor using a Castle mmp esc but found the belts got tortured.
Skiddens in Australia most hobby shops are there to make money from the newbe/ basher market so you can still get 25c/30c/45c batteries, most racers know where to go ( a select few stores ) to get the good stuff at a reasonable price ( or order from overseas ). I know the shops have to make a dollar but some of them trying to sell rear Xray t4 belts for $36 AUS is downright disgraceful... but that is a story for for another thread.
back on topic i have had more luck then others using 6000mah 80c intellect and nvision 90c 6400 and 8000, as i said the turnigy 65c would not work, but some of my direct competitors with very similar cars have killed ORCA 90c not sure if it was 6800 or 7200, also seen orion 90c 8000c shaped like an egg after a hard run, and a frying intellect 90c i think about 7200mah
cheers
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Old 07-28-2014, 08:28 AM   #40
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I also run one of my tc4's at 4S with a tekin Rx8, but my TP batteries don't seem to break a sweat... I also don't try to kill it either...Anyway, it seems that lots of other brands are puffing while Thunderpower packs are not, or is it that nobody is using them anymore??? The only packs I had puffed were Maxamps packs, and that was because I stored them fully charged all the time, but they lacked punch compared to thunderpower packs.....
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hi guys, jlfx car audio, sorry to create confusion but the 4s was used during my brief ( unspectacular besides smoking esc's ) 1/8 onroad career, WE found tekin rx8 would not work in a brushless 1/8 pan car ( some RCtech member i spoke to in europe found the opposite in his 1/8 onroad but this is how it sometimes goes because sometimes different results can happen for similar setups) and so this is how the rx8's ended up in 1/10 lola bodied touring cars, so sorry to let you down but these cars do only run 2s 540 can mod motors, in saying this i did experiment with 3s lipo on my t4 with a 4 pole 4600kv 540 motor using a Castle mmp esc but found the belts got tortured.
Skiddens in Australia most hobby shops are there to make money from the newbe/ basher market so you can still get 25c/30c/45c batteries, most racers know where to go ( a select few stores ) to get the good stuff at a reasonable price ( or order from overseas ). I know the shops have to make a dollar but some of them trying to sell rear Xray t4 belts for $36 AUS is downright disgraceful... but that is a story for for another thread.
back on topic i have had more luck then others using 6000mah 80c intellect and nvision 90c 6400 and 8000, as i said the turnigy 65c would not work, but some of my direct competitors with very similar cars have killed ORCA 90c not sure if it was 6800 or 7200, also seen orion 90c 8000c shaped like an egg after a hard run, and a frying intellect 90c i think about 7200mah
cheers
oldenuff
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:02 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by EAMotorsports View Post
I dont have to quantify anything to anyone. If you want to know ask several of the top Oval racers in the country that did it at the Snowbirds.

I dont have to show a data log of it. I witnessed at the Snowbirds last year. Also saw several melt the bullet connectors off of the speedo wires from the current draw as well.

Anyone here thats good at math figure up what amp draw it takes to dump a 7000mah battery pack in 180 seconds.

EA
Ha. It is exactly because I can do the math that I asked you for evidence of the actual current drawn. A dumped battery can be anything as you should very well know.
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:10 AM   #42
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Ha. It is exactly because I can do the math that I asked you for evidence of the actual current drawn. A dumped battery can be anything as you should very well know.
Not for nothing, but if you "challenged" me the same way you did to EA and I had the info (which I don't doubt he does ) I wouldn't answer you either. Save that posturing for PMs.
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Old 07-28-2014, 11:01 AM   #43
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Not for nothing, but if you "challenged" me the same way you did to EA and I had the info (which I don't doubt he does ) I wouldn't answer you either. Save that posturing for PMs.
Yeah, but you don't. So who's posturing?

Either way, it turns out there is none and I put it to you sir, this is because there can not be.

You do the math.

Or the posturing.

Whatever blows your -err, no, maybe not.
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Old 07-28-2014, 02:44 PM   #44
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Why all the confusion guys??? Just get Thunderpower, and call it a day....ok.... Also if these oval guys were dumping 7000mah packs in three minutes, then either the packs were not really 7000mah or their setups were too power hungry, and generated too much heat....
I had Thunderpower lipos before...
Thunderpower should be renamed to Underpowered even for offroad or on road! LOL!

I guess once you run good cells with lower IR you never go back.
But how would a Racer knows whats good if you don't own a ICharger to test at high amps???
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Old 07-28-2014, 03:09 PM   #45
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I had Thunderpower lipos before...
Thunderpower should be renamed to Underpowered even for offroad or on road! LOL!

I guess once you run good cells with lower IR you never go back.
But how would a Racer knows whats good if you don't own a ICharger to test at high amps???
So what do you recommend?
I have to confess that Thunder Power are amongst the best I have run and by far the most reliable.
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