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Old 08-30-2005, 06:31 AM   #16
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[QUOTE=wolfman76]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sosidge
My biggest Minus...

I can't concentrate for 8 mins!

Try running 1 hour 1/8th buggy mains LOL
My thoughts exactly. If anything, it's easier to concentrate for a 20 min plus race. You get yourself into a groove and let all those days of practice take over after the nerves are done shaking you abit. It's nice to have enough time to recover from an unfortunate turn of fate and wheel someone down.

I'm all for longer races, bring it on.
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Old 08-30-2005, 06:35 AM   #17
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I would be good if stock can start running 8 mins.
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Old 08-30-2005, 06:40 AM   #18
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I'm not confining this discussion to 1/10 sedans, or even on-road.

I'd like to see 1/12 go to at least 10 minute mains, even 15.

There is a local guy here who races in a modified 17 turn touring class that we have, he often uses the same batterypack for 2 heats, not charging between. His packs are old 2400 mAh NiCd cells and 3000 mAh NiMh. And he wins a race now and then.
So how about starting with 8 minute mains for 19 turn motors? Letting modified 8 minute races wait a bit.

It has been repeatedly proven that you can dump any 6 cell battery with any motor less than 10 turns in 4 minutes if you time it "correctly". No problem. But you can also make almost any motor last at least 10 minutes at 98% of current racing speeds using 3300 batteries.

Length of races could be a problem, but if you limit drivers to 2 classes or fewer in the same race you can easily reduce that problem, even elimite it.

If you have extra 3 minutes you could make up for the first corner carnage.

After racing eight minutes for couple of races, I bet you can't understand how you could race in the much too short five minute races.
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Old 08-30-2005, 06:46 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andsetinn
I'm not confining this discussion to 1/10 sedans, or even on-road.

I'd like to see 1/12 go to at least 10 minutes, even 15.

There is a local guy here who races in a modified 17 turn touring class that we have, he often uses the same batterypack for 2 heats, not charging between. His packs are old 2400 mAh NiCd cells and 3000 mAh NiMh. And he wins a race now and then.
So how about starting with 8 minute mains for 19 turn motors? Letting modified 8 minute races wait a bit.

You can dump any 6 cell battery with any motor less than 10 turns if you time it "correctly". No problem. But you can also make almost any motor last at least 10 minutes at 98% of current racing speeds using 3300 batteries.

Length of races could be a problem, but if you limit drivers to 2 classes or fewer in the same race you can easily reduce that problem, even elimite it.

If you have extra 3 minutes you could make up for the first corner carnage.

After racing eight minutes for couple of races, I bet you can't understand how you could race in the much too short five minute races.
so what motors can you make last for ten mins?
i bet youd have trouble with a 19 turn on gp3700 at full race speed.
a lot of cars will dump using low turn motors before 8mions is up,id go for a 12 turn,last the race.
youd never get a 1/12th last for 15 in mod.
then you talk about putting more drivers in one race,that gona be 20 drivers in one heat,ud never get them in a drivers rostrum,it wud have to be 1/4 mile long,then what bout traffic.dont think you thought it through.
most people i think that race mod,want to go full power for 5mins,we dont want a le mans 24.
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Old 08-30-2005, 06:58 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trf racer
so what motors can you make last for ten mins?
i bet youd have trouble with a 19 turn on gp3700 at full race speed.
a lot of cars will dump using low turn motors before 8mions is up,id go for a 12 turn,last the race.
youd never get a 1/12th last for 15 in mod.
then you talk about putting more drivers in one race,that gona be 20 drivers in one heat,ud never get them in a drivers rostrum,it wud have to be 1/4 mile long,then what bout traffic.dont think you thought it through.
most people i think that race mod,want to go full power for 5mins,we dont want a le mans 24.
1. Almost any motor timed and geared to last for 10 minutes can last for 10 minutes.
2. If 1/12 lasted for 8 minutes using 1200 cells, then it can last for 15 minutes, twice as long, using cells three times bigger (3600).
3. Where do you get the idea that I want more drivers in one race? I want drivers to race in fewer classes so we can fit longer mains in same race time.
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Old 08-30-2005, 07:21 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andsetinn
............Where do you get the idea that I want more drivers in one race? I want drivers to race in fewer classes so we can fit longer mains in same race time.
Amen to that, there's too many dam classes. Nitro offroad for example, you have about 3 classes of just monster truck, 1/8 buggy, 1/8 sportsman, 1/10 truck, and then novice/youth.
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Old 08-30-2005, 07:48 AM   #22
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At our last race we ran 5 minute quals for brushless and then ran a longer main. The quals were 23'ish laps and the main was set up for 30 laps. So we ran for about 7:00 minutes for the main. It was a blast and the extra time worked in my favor allowing me to catch the leader and take the victory after some poor driving on my part. I'm sure the guy who got 2nd might disagree.

I would like to do longer races but I already hate having to marshal for 8 minutes when I marshal for the 1/12th cars. Plus... it would be tough to get through many larger races with a reasonable time schedule if all the quals were 8 minutes long. Triple A-mains would also be tough with all the classes running 8 minute races. Week night club races would also drag on a lot longer with every class running 8 minutes instead of 5... it adds up.

I vote for 5 minute quals and slightly longer mains so there is more time to RACE for the victory. This is especially true for 4300 brushless where even a old failing gp3300 can make 8 minutes easily.

Another argument against 8:00 minute sedan races is that most brushed motors would not be in good shape after that long of a run. With stock motors overheating or slowing down after about 4:00 in many cases, just imagine what would happen by 8:00. You'd need to have a fire extinguisher handy.
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Old 08-30-2005, 07:50 AM   #23
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Thumbs down Longer Races??

Here in the U.S. even with 5min. quals. and mains we have the Chassis Wars, the ESC Wars, Motor Wars, Battery Wars, and Radio Wars in a hobby that is supposed to be fun and economical. Ware I race to be competitive even in STOCK TOURING you have to spend @$1,000.00 just to get to the drivers stand letalone the support equipment. 8min., no thanks, I'll be priced out of the hobby I really enjoy. Just my 2cents.
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Old 08-30-2005, 07:55 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andsetinn
1. Almost any motor timed and geared to last for 10 minutes can last for 10 minutes.
2. If 1/12 lasted for 8 minutes using 1200 cells, then it can last for 15 minutes, twice as long, using cells three times bigger (3600).
3. Where do you get the idea that I want more drivers in one race? I want drivers to race in fewer classes so we can fit longer mains in same race time.
1) Too true. Running longer would make people gear more reasonably.
2) Motors did not pull as many amps back then... not an apples/apples comparison
3) Fewer classes... ok... we can get rid of the class you run in then. That ok? Or better yet... we will put the novice guys in with you so you can get pounded to the boards every other lap just for fun.

I think longer mains would be reasonable. Longer quals would just take too much time. As you said... any motor can be geared down to handle a longer main. It's just a matter of talking the racers into wanting to run slower/longer.
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Old 08-30-2005, 08:01 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lumberjak
Here in the U.S. even with 5min. quals. and mains we have the Chassis Wars, the ESC Wars, Motor Wars, Battery Wars, and Radio Wars in a hobby that is supposed to be fun and economical. Ware I race to be competitive even in STOCK TOURING you have to spend @$1,000.00 just to get to the drivers stand letalone the support equipment. 8min., no thanks, I'll be priced out of the hobby I really enjoy. Just my 2cents.
Agreed... things are getting expensive. I really think ROAR and some of the larger MFG's need to get together (along with some of the international level drivers) to come up with some ideas on how to slow things down a bit and get prices back under control. But that is a another topic all together.

BTW... I cut costs by quite a bit by switching to 4300 brushless. I'm lucky to have a strong brushless class at my track. We also run the 4300 brushless class with 19t on slower weeks. It's a pretty close match up.
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Old 08-30-2005, 08:11 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderDaHill
1) Too true. Running longer would make people gear more reasonably.
2) Motors did not pull as many amps back then... not an apples/apples comparison
3) Fewer classes... ok... we can get rid of the class you run in then. That ok? Or better yet... we will put the novice guys in with you so you can get pounded to the boards every other lap just for fun.

I think longer mains would be reasonable. Longer quals would just take too much time. As you said... any motor can be geared down to handle a longer main. It's just a matter of talking the racers into wanting to run slower/longer.
I don't want fewer classes. "I want drivers to race in fewer classes so we can fit longer mains in same race time."

If you go to a race and race in:
3 classes now, you get 75 min track time.
2 classes running 8 min mains gets you 80 min track time.
2 classes now gets you 50 min track time.
1 class running 8 min mains gets you 40 min track time.
1 class now gets you 25 min track time, that's not much for whole days worth.

The races wont be much slower. If I remember correctly there was about 0.5 second laptime difference at the last snowbirds between modified class and 19 turn class. It takes you nearly as long to blink your eye.
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Old 08-30-2005, 08:40 AM   #27
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I see what your saying. Instead of having Q mains beceuse you have so many people running 3 classes you'd have only out to G mains if the races were longer and people ran 2 classes instead of 3, and they would still get just as much race time. But would people limit themselves to 2 classes or would they be greedy and stay in all 3 classes to get 120 minutes of race time?

Makes sense. But at the club level, especially on weeknights, the number of heats would not likely change. The longer quals would make it hard to finish things at a reasonable hour.
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Old 08-30-2005, 09:04 AM   #28
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8 minute heats/mains weren't a problem when there was only 1/12 scale.

I'm in favor of 8 minute races for TC.
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Old 08-30-2005, 09:11 AM   #29
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I sent in a written proposal to ROAR a couple months ago about changing all touring car and off-road races from 5 to 6 minutes.

I suggested that this change MUST be put to a vote by the membership, just as it was done back in the 90's when offroad went from 4 to 5 minutes.

It was also suggested that the members vote separately for off-road and on-road. This way if you have no interest in off-road, you won't be changing the rules for them. The same would be true for off-roaders who don't race on-road. If you want to vote for both, fine.

We'll see if it ever makes it to the ballot, or if ROAR's Executive Committee just decides what is "best" for all of us.
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Old 08-30-2005, 09:13 AM   #30
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6 to 8 minutes sounds good.... I'm all for it!
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