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Old 08-29-2005, 03:17 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Williams
I agree with you guys about the XXX-main being a good resource, but once you start getting more into suspension geometry sometimes you need more than just "gives more steering in, less steering out". That stuff is fairly easily memorized and sometimes it's more complicated than just a pat answer. You know, it's like: how is this actually *working* on the car and what interactions will this adjustment have with the rest of my setup? That's the kind of information that you need to dig around for and usually just try out for yourself. ...As far as performance, after switching some months ago during the outdoor season, I found the car to be more stable throughout all points of the corner.
I'm still digging...

And I also noticed that the rear became more stable. It seemed to me that the changes that racermac71 describes with in-board toe-in result in a rear end that goes from being planted to losing traction more abruptly. With the out-board toe-in, the rear end grip transitions smoother throughout the corner and produces more predictable rotation or power slides as you stiffen the setup.
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Last edited by teamgp; 08-29-2005 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 08-29-2005, 03:32 PM   #17
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And I also noticed that the rear became more stable. It seemed to me that the changes that racermac71 describes with in-board toe-in result in a rear end that goes from being planted to losing traction more abruptly. With the out-board toe-in, the rear end grip transitions smoother throughout the corner and produces more predictable rotation or power slides.
This makes sense, especially if you have any pro or anti squat. Your tire actually begins to move forwards and backwards, changing wheelbase if the hinge pins are tilted. I would think inboard toe would add to this effect.

Toe at the hub won't do that
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Old 08-29-2005, 06:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Williams
I agree with you guys about the XXX-main being a good resource, but once you start getting more into suspension geometry sometimes you need more than just "gives more steering in, less steering out". That stuff is fairly easily memorized and sometimes it's more complicated than just a pat answer.

You know, it's like: how is this actually *working* on the car and what interactions will this adjustment have with the rest of my setup? That's the kind of information that you need to dig around for and usually just try out for yourself.

Just as a little plug, I run the Tamale 1.5* outboard hubs on my BMI XRAY and they work extremely well. The aluminum is top drawer as well as the craftsmanship. As far as performance, after switching some months ago during the outdoor season, I found the car to be more stable, yet freer throughout all points of the corner.
Your second paragraph is why I started this thread. Everyone can tell you how to get more steering, less steering, ect... I am just looking for someone that could tell me how the two are different and how they work on different surfaces, styles of track, ect. If I had the time I would be at the track testing all the time but I dont soo...

I race with the Tamale guy, Larry Bradshaw, so I've seen the product up close. Just trying to decide if the rear hubs are worth getting or just staying with shims for the arm. Another plug.....his fan mount is beautiful.

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Old 08-29-2005, 06:20 PM   #19
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I would check with Jeff Brown or P-Dub, I am sure they could answer that
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Old 08-29-2005, 09:06 PM   #20
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your question was answered, there is no perfect answer because all situations are different. people explained the mechanics of what each one do......... if your looking for some magical answer that doing this or that will make your car perfect for these conditions or those conditions you will never get it......... way too many variables not too mention driving styles, you might as well ask what is the perfect rollout for running on carpet........ cant be answered bacause of track size, motor, battery, tire size, driving style, ect. ect. ect.
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Old 08-30-2005, 04:35 AM   #21
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changing inboard toe has more effect then outboard.
if you change inboard you effect the roll centre,the length of the camber link.
i no that if you go narrower,this makes the back end looase,if you go wider,then it helps the rear to bite.
on the trf415 we can widen or narrow the rear/front of the car and keep the same toe.
youcan also use wheel spacers to widen or narrow the car

outboard just effects the toe.
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Old 08-30-2005, 09:28 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Williams
I agree with you guys about the XXX-main being a good resource, but once you start getting more into suspension geometry sometimes you need more than just "gives more steering in, less steering out". That stuff is fairly easily memorized and sometimes it's more complicated than just a pat answer.

You know, it's like: how is this actually *working* on the car and what interactions will this adjustment have with the rest of my setup? That's the kind of information that you need to dig around for and usually just try out for yourself.
VERY TRUE Once I really started getting into my car, the four basic scenerios they used are not at all enough. Suspension geometry is the bread-n-butter of any set-up on any car. Find yourself some information on this and you'll be reading and learning for awhile. But more importantly, TRY DIFFERENT SETTINGS ON YOUR CAR! And depending on what car you have some changes are subtle but on a different car those same changes are not. Try drastic changes first and work your way back to level ground ie.- springs, shock oil, shock positions, length and height of camber links, droop. Don't be afraid to try something someone else thinks is numbskullish; you might find out it works for you ...
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