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Old 09-23-2002, 12:13 PM   #1
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Default Trinity Chameleon 19 Turn Spec Modified

Question from racers racing in clubs that run a 19T spec class.

WE are about to start this class based on the TRinity line of motors.

My question is do you allow Chameleon based motors tuned by tuners such as Fantom or Putnam in this class? They are just using a blank chameleon as they do with the P2k and then sticker it with there name.

Also is Reedy coming out with a 19T Spec motor based on a yokomo motor? If they do is supposed to be compatible with the chameleon motor so that it could be introduce into exsisting classes?


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Old 09-23-2002, 03:19 PM   #2
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Sure why not a 19 turn is still a 19 turn no matter who tunes it!!!
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Old 09-23-2002, 03:21 PM   #3
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And Orion / Peak will soon be releasing there versions of the 19T spec motor.
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Old 09-23-2002, 03:24 PM   #4
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Zombie thats what my worry is. What are the spec motors based on?

If we start off with a 19T spec class based on TRinity motors and others release 19T motors we are worried about motor wars. As we used to have in open mod classes... Are they following some kind of guidelines such as they do with 27t stockers?
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Old 09-23-2002, 05:03 PM   #5
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Well, yes and no. I guess what I'm trying to say is there isn't all that much you can do to a Spec motor to make it far better than another. In Open Mod class, you're only restricted by money. Some people go all the way down to 8T or 6T. Once you've regulated the number of winds, you've pretty much evened out the playing field. Now the Chameleon has fixed timing which I thought was part of the "Spec" but the Reedy Spec 19T has adjustable timing according to Tower Hobbies. Anyway, motor tuners like Fantom have to obey the 19T Spec rules. What they change is stuff like brushes, brush cuts and timing, armature rebalancing. Stuff like that. A diligent motor tuner can do the same if he/she had the time and a dyno.
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Old 09-23-2002, 05:11 PM   #6
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Yes i agree a racer can and will do everything a motor tuner does. Fantom and Putnam will be taking the EPIC based motor(chameleon) tune it and sticker it...

Its the REEDY motor that im worried about. To claim its a spec 19T motor and then produce it with adjustable timing seems wrong. Well it is wrong since its not comparable to the Trinity motor. So racers will by the Reedy over the chameleon because of the abilty to tune with timing. And this kind of defeats the purpose of specing at 19T with fixed timing..

So it looks as though we should spec our class as:
19T fixed timing EPIC based motors(trinity,fantom,putman ect) The orion motors have speced them selves the same as the trinity motors at least
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Old 09-23-2002, 06:46 PM   #7
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the 19t spec motors all have a locked timing just like in stock. I have both and the trinity was fast in my opinon but htey can both be made very competive easyly for everyone so there is no real advantage
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Old 09-23-2002, 07:07 PM   #8
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The Reedy 19T Spec motor definitely DOES NOT have adjustable timing. It is fixed with 24 degrees. As long as you require "Spec" 19T motors, you should be fine. There are 19T motors, such as Speed Gems 19T, that you can get with adjustable timing. That's what you want to ban. If you really want to get anal about it and keep the cost down, Trinity should be able to sell your lhs "handout motors." If you require racers to run a "handout motor," you can really police what people are doing, mark the can and arm, tech motors before each race, etc. You should be able to get these motors for around $20, so the only guys that will complain are the ones that already have motors. No matter how hard you try to keep the playing field level, the guys that know how to make motors fast will do so and the guys that don't know will scratch their heads.
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Old 09-23-2002, 08:27 PM   #9
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The ARCOR 19 turn spec motors have adjustable timing. They are basically a handwound 19 turn armature in a mod can.
All of the other spec motors, trinity, reedy, and orion are machine wound and in stock cans with bearings.
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Old 09-23-2002, 08:33 PM   #10
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Thanks for the reedy info.

So looks like 3 motors in the spec game:
EPIC based
Yokomo based(reedy)
TOP(orion)

Sound right?

Fyi i help run our local club and just wanted to get this info ahead of time so we know what we are up against. I know about the tuning and what not im not looking for the hot setup just info about spec 19T racing.

If all are spec tagged and locked timing thats great. WE can either allow all or just the EPIC based motors.

Thanks
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Old 09-23-2002, 09:16 PM   #11
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All the 19 turn spec stuff will change next year. The rules that have been written for ROAR rules use the ARCOR type motor. Handwound and adjustable timing. Trinity is going to release theirs as soon as ROAR makes it offical (after the exec commitee meeting in November). And the rule will take affect Jan 1.

Now this does not affect your racing at all, but I just thought I would let you know which way ROAR is going with the 19 turn spec class.

ea
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Old 09-23-2002, 09:20 PM   #12
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Gee really? Thats too bad. One of the things i liked about he spec 19 as it is now is that newbeis could go racing without the added worry about timing and that machine wound arms would keep costs down. I guess that will change..

Oh well . Thanks for the infos this is helping us out.
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Old 09-23-2002, 09:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joel Lagace
Gee really? Thats too bad. One of the things i liked about he spec 19 as it is now is that newbeis could go racing without the added worry about timing and that machine wound arms would keep costs down. I guess that will change..

Oh well . Thanks for the infos this is helping us out.
I think that the Handwound motors will be better in the long run. You wont have to buy 10 motors to find a good one for one. The motors will cost about the same (probably about 10 bucks more in hobbyshops). To me it makes sense to have the 19 turn class adjustable timing. The class was created to be a steping stone from stock to full mod. If you run the handwound motors it gives the stock racers a place to start and learn what effect timing has on a motor without have to race full mod and take a chance of tearing up alot of stuff.

When the time comes if you want to make it easier and dont like the adjustable timing part of it but still want to use the handwould motors just have the tech people get a timing guage like from Racetech and have a rule that no more than 24 degrees of timing. Then you wont have to worry about that aspect of it.

Hope this gives you some more to think about.

ea
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Old 09-26-2002, 06:01 PM   #14
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Default 19 turn spec. motor races...

last year we ran a trophy race with a spec 19 turn motor limit..
the rules that they all had to be blue endbell with blue label on them...

that helped a lot on teching... and also dropped the motor wars, but then again tweaking these motors locally one can really make the "ZING" i have seen numbers in the 98-99 power off the dynos...


hope this helps..
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Old 09-26-2002, 06:03 PM   #15
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Default ooops.

i meant the green labels that said chameleon 2...

the blue labels i think were fantom based ones..
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