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Old 02-04-2006, 03:05 AM   #76
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since the CTX has a finer way of detecting the peak for a battery, an extra charge will not be (for lack of better wording) put into the battery.

extra charge will mean excess heat. heat kills the batteries. you may spend a little bit extra for the CTX, but what you save from purchasing a cheaper (price wise) charger will get spent on your batteries.

you only buy a charger once. but you buy batteries as soon as they dont perform anymore... so in the long run, the more accurate the peak, the better. and the batteries will last longer.

btw.... how come we always have to have everything matching? anyone else notice that?
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Old 02-04-2006, 09:45 AM   #77
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Thanks. That reminds me. Did anyone else notice how much cooler that batts came off w/ the ice.
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Old 02-04-2006, 09:53 AM   #78
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I just picked up a Pro-Trak from a guy on RCTech. It will be interesting to compare the Pro-Trak against my ICE. Should get some odd looks at the track with my laptop hooked up to my charger! lol
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Old 02-04-2006, 11:28 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewdc90
I don't see why people think there is a benefit in the step charging on the ctx as a lot of team drivers have siad that there is no benefit in it and the best way to charge your batteries is a linear charge. Anyway the ICE has step charging like on the ctx but it is customizable. The ICE also does lipo batteries which would save even more money.
Go the ICE.
the muchmore cell master ALSO does lipo cells!

http://www.teammuchmore.com/index.cf...Page&itemId=29
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Old 02-04-2006, 11:50 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTurtleMan
I have had many many different chargers. I got an ice last year to try. Well now I have 3. If they would have not put Duratrax name on them, I think just about everyone would have one. I have never had one problem them other that I crack my display one time because I was a dumb ass... Duratrax sent me a new display no charge w/ in a few days. WOW. They defiantly have great customer service. You can't go wrong w/ an Ice.....
That was my next question.

I have a Novak Millenium that went south. It has been great as a 2nd & 3rd charger (I have 2). Contacted Novak, they said they could not support it and if it was a M-pro it would cost $65 to get a re-hashed one. I went through that with the ESCs. Now the chargers are the same way. Cannot wait to be orange free! Was trying to put an anology to it. Like buying a car and after 6 years the dealer saying we don't sell those anymore and cannot fix them.

Anyways electronics do fail and being dumb a$$es does happen and things get destroyed especially going to big races. I have known people with other chargers and had them totally destroyed by the airlines. Usually turnaround time would be over a month. Regardless of the brand I do think this is another key to look at.

I have been looking and drooling over the Ice for a few months.
It is on my next buy list.
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Old 02-04-2006, 12:07 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Ko
Cannot wait to be orange free! Was trying to put an anology to it. Like buying a car and after 6 years the dealer saying we don't sell those anymore and cannot fix them.
I dont quite get your anology here. Comparing a car and a electronic item, is not quite the same. Your talking about two entirely different industries with different economics and demands in each.
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Old 02-04-2006, 06:19 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XMSRacing
I don't quite get your anology here. Comparing a car and a electronic item, is not quite the same. Your talking about two entirely different industries with different economics and demands in each.
I got the analogy crystal clear. Let's rephrase it as. "You buy a charger and after 6 years the dealer says it's not selling them anymore and can't service them". The dealer should always offer to service the item, in the electronic service industry spares are always available. If the item is couple of years old the spare is usually of better quality than the original item. If the customer is not ready to pay for the repair because the cost is too high or the item is nearly worn out anyway it should be his choice, not the odealers/manufacturers.

I'm still not getting the "super linear current". I can't see how it matters if the current is absolutely linear. If the current has let's say 3% fluctuation I can't understand how it can significantly effect charging. It's like saying that bucket can't be as full if the flow of water from the tap fluctuated 3%. XMSRacing before you start saying that you can't compare current flow to water flow, it is exactly what we were told to compare it to, when I was studying to become electrician.

Oh, buy the Ice. It's much better looking than the Much More CTX.
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Old 02-04-2006, 08:05 PM   #83
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I am still in shock that Duratrax has a charger that does everything that I want. Well the 10amp discharger could be better but I have not seen an affordable charger that does higher discharge rate.
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Old 02-04-2006, 08:26 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebiki
btw.... how come we always have to have everything matching? anyone else notice that?
I really stand out with my N-power purple PS and my black ctx. Its like wearing black knee high socks with shorts. I like the ice and might get one for my backup charger but its soooo ugly. Maybe we can paint it black.
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Old 02-04-2006, 09:11 PM   #85
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Tomorrow I will test the accuracy of the charging current and post the graph up on here. Like Andsetinn said, I find it hard to believe that a slight fluctuation in the current would cause a falty charge. Heat is caused when there is excess power applied to the pack. Therefore, the explanation given by nexus just doesn't add up. While I agree that Much More does have very high quality products, I have a hard time believing some of what has been said in this thread.
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Old 02-05-2006, 02:49 AM   #86
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Guys, I'm afraid you all got it wrong because "Super Linear" actually means it's not pure linear. Chargers like T30, T35 & GFX have "real" linear output. Tiny chargers w/o much heat dissipation capability like the MM CTX uses a switching circuit, it's not really a linear output but it's pretty close. So, they called it "Super Linear".
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Old 02-05-2006, 02:50 AM   #87
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So after much consideration I decided to go ahead and pick up a ctx. I really wanted the nice clean look and I did like that it was smaller.

So here are a few benefits and cons I have found since I do now own both chargers.

CTX Good:
1. Smaller footprint
2. The wires come out of the back and front, much easier to deal with in my particular set-up.
3. The charge wires a much longer, makes it easier to attach the pack.
4. It includes the temp probe and it has a magnet inside, so you just stick it to the side of the battery, so easy, no clamping like the ICE
5. Backlighting, I know we don't race in the dark, but it doe make it easier to read, and it is at a better angle.
6. Nicer fit and finish
7. Warmer tray/ cooling fan optional accessories
8. Easier to see the important information during a charge
9. 30 min lockout, ICE only has 10

CTX Bad:
1. More $$$, but not excessive
2. Not as user friendly
3. No motor run in
4. Fans are a little loud

ICE Good:
1. Graphs the charge, I really liked this feature, and it gives you a nice representation of what’s going on
2. Motor run in, very handy
3. 10 Programmable charges, CTX has 6
4. Alligator clips for power wires come in handy
5. Very user friendly
6. Cheap, bang for the buck!
7. Quiet

ICE bad:
1. Fit and finish is not as nice
2. Kind of ugly
3. Short Charge leads
4. Does not include temp probe
5. Backlight would help
6. Temp probe kind of sucks, clamp is limiting

So now down to what everyone wants to know, HOW DO THEY CHARGE???

I did a comparison using the same sets of batteries. I would charge the pack on one charger, record the results, then discharge the pack using my ctx-d and once again record the results. Would let the pack totally cool and do it with the second charger all over again. (Gp3300, 6A Charge, 10mV peak detect) I made sure to discharge and equalize the cells exactly the same. So the comparison was made with the same battery, under as close to the same conditions as I could, I also swapped which one went first in case there was an advantage to going first or second. Lastly I made sure that immediately after the charge the went straight to discharge.

Now the results were a little surprising. On average the ICE showed that it was putting more mA in per charge, but less voltage. Basically it would put in 20-40 more mA per pack, but .02-.03 less volts per cell. So it sound like the ICE was better right?

Wait there is more, when I used the CTX-d to discharge each pack each time from both chargers (basically using it as a measuring stick) the MM CTX charger would consistently give the pack more runtime, now I know you are saying that I said the ICE was putting in more mA, but that was according to its display. The discharger was showing me that the cells coming off the MM charger had on average 10-30 more seconds of runtime, and the same .02-.03 additional volts.

Now I am in no way saying this was a perfect test, but I ran 3 packs through this system and each time I got the same results.

Now the question is, is that much of a difference worth the price differential, well that is up to each person. If I were a basher I would say no, if I were a racer then I would say yes.

I plan to do some more test with some brand new cells later and will report my results, if anyone has any questions about this test I will be happy to answer them. I do still think the ICE is a wicked charger, but I am just as happy with the Much More unit...
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Old 02-05-2006, 04:28 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6g72tt
Now the results were a little surprising. On average the ICE showed that it was putting more mA in per charge, but less voltage. Basically it would put in 20-40 more mA per pack, but .02-.03 less volts per cell. So it sound like the ICE was better right?

..
how did you measure the voltage? by reading the data from the charger? if so that is not accurate. because the the voltage readout is different from charger to charger and even from each charger of the same brand. it all depends on how well the charger was calibrated.

e.g on an uncharged pack my Ice may read 7.45Volts, but on my Ctx-c it may read 7.80v and on my voltmeter/multimeter it may read 7.50v

so just consider it as a scale. but the scale between each charger is slightly different.

you have to use a multimeter to get accurate voltage results.
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Old 02-05-2006, 09:22 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6g72tt
So after much consideration I decided to go ahead and pick up a ctx. I really wanted the nice clean look and I did like that it was smaller.

So here are a few benefits and cons I have found since I do now own both chargers.

CTX Good:
1. Smaller footprint
2. The wires come out of the back and front, much easier to deal with in my particular set-up.
3. The charge wires a much longer, makes it easier to attach the pack.
4. It includes the temp probe and it has a magnet inside, so you just stick it to the side of the battery, so easy, no clamping like the ICE
5. Backlighting, I know we don't race in the dark, but it doe make it easier to read, and it is at a better angle.
6. Nicer fit and finish
7. Warmer tray/ cooling fan optional accessories
8. Easier to see the important information during a charge
9. 30 min lockout, ICE only has 10

CTX Bad:
1. More $$$, but not excessive
2. Not as user friendly
3. No motor run in
4. Fans are a little loud

ICE Good:
1. Graphs the charge, I really liked this feature, and it gives you a nice representation of what’s going on
2. Motor run in, very handy
3. 10 Programmable charges, CTX has 6
4. Alligator clips for power wires come in handy
5. Very user friendly
6. Cheap, bang for the buck!
7. Quiet

ICE bad:
1. Fit and finish is not as nice
2. Kind of ugly
3. Short Charge leads
4. Does not include temp probe
5. Backlight would help
6. Temp probe kind of sucks, clamp is limiting

So now down to what everyone wants to know, HOW DO THEY CHARGE???

I did a comparison using the same sets of batteries. I would charge the pack on one charger, record the results, then discharge the pack using my ctx-d and once again record the results. Would let the pack totally cool and do it with the second charger all over again. (Gp3300, 6A Charge, 10mV peak detect) I made sure to discharge and equalize the cells exactly the same. So the comparison was made with the same battery, under as close to the same conditions as I could, I also swapped which one went first in case there was an advantage to going first or second. Lastly I made sure that immediately after the charge the went straight to discharge.

Now the results were a little surprising. On average the ICE showed that it was putting more mA in per charge, but less voltage. Basically it would put in 20-40 more mA per pack, but .02-.03 less volts per cell. So it sound like the ICE was better right?

Wait there is more, when I used the CTX-d to discharge each pack each time from both chargers (basically using it as a measuring stick) the MM CTX charger would consistently give the pack more runtime, now I know you are saying that I said the ICE was putting in more mA, but that was according to its display. The discharger was showing me that the cells coming off the MM charger had on average 10-30 more seconds of runtime, and the same .02-.03 additional volts.

Now I am in no way saying this was a perfect test, but I ran 3 packs through this system and each time I got the same results.

Now the question is, is that much of a difference worth the price differential, well that is up to each person. If I were a basher I would say no, if I were a racer then I would say yes.

I plan to do some more test with some brand new cells later and will report my results, if anyone has any questions about this test I will be happy to answer them. I do still think the ICE is a wicked charger, but I am just as happy with the Much More unit...
when u dc the packs from the ice to the ctx, there is time in between (disconnect/connect). but when u charge from the ctx, it automatically dc it when its done charging.. therefore you get more runtime and voltage because it reads it right after the charge...

how about try the same method execpt this time, use the ice to read the results. or even better, charge with both charger and use a volt meter RIGHT AFTER they peak.
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Old 02-05-2006, 09:33 AM   #90
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I think the important part is he is using the same device to discharge. The CTX-D is showing the difference betweem the ICE & CTX, he isnt going off of the ratings of either charger.

I would be interested in seeing a comparison of the step charging. Nexus pointed out that some ppl feel their packs are flat after step charging on the ICE. It might be difficult to do an accurate test as the ICE does a 4 step charge while the CTX does a 3 step charge.
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