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Old 05-08-2014, 11:40 AM   #46
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All I can say is that the cost of the "big" races. ALL OF THEM not just ROAR Nats are getting out of hand.

I remember the good ole days when entries were $40 and the entire A main got a plaque or trophy and the 1-3rd got the same in every main and most of those races you got a hand out motor and an Event T-shirt.. Now they want you to pay for the pit table, chair, electricty, Motor and shirt on top of the $80-100 entry.

With an "if you don't like it, don't come" attitude....and ppl wonder why the hobby isn't growing.

Like Billy said. If you can't answer the sipmlest of questions without sounding like you already have a chip on your shoulder...may be YOU aren't the person who needs to be representing the track on these forums. Not all owners need to be the spokes person for thier business...

I love how after tracks take the time to bid and then WIN the bid do they try and throw it back in the racers faces of how much money they are gonna lose by hosting a race.

You knew EXACTLY what you were getting into when you accepted the race! If its not cost effective for you to hold the race and you are gonna lose $$$ why accept?

Ok off the soap box for now.
And Gas used to cost $0.10/gallon! All I am saying is, with the exception of a few posts, this thread has been dominated over having to pay the track an extra $10 for practice and having to pay $20 for a pit for the week. I, personally, do not see a problem with helping support a facility, any facility. Yes, to go to that practice you MAY have to miss an extra day of work and maybe spend an extra night in a hotel(you could fly in on Wednesday morning). But, that is something you have to contend with, everyone shouldn't have to contend with your travel restrictions. i.e. Jeff Gordon doesn't have to show up on Friday to practice because Michael McDowell cant make it till then, he can show up on Thursday if he has the means to.

Our track hosted Nats last year, Village Raceway. We did not charge for Power, Pits, tables etc because we do not have Rent to pay or an electric bill, we are very lucky. We were able to provide the tables, chairs, tents etc. at no additional cost to the racer. However, it can't be expected that every track has that same luxury. Every place is different, with different operating costs. Don't you think you should have to pay for what you use? Anything that is thrown in to be a bonus? It can't always be assumed that everything be thrown in, we would have no place to race! And we don't have Obama to give us everything!

With Regards to the Bid, Did any of you see the bid? Do you know what was included in the bid? No, neither do I! How can you begin to talk about something you know nothing about? ROAR approved the flyer, apparently they did not have a problem with it, an assumption can be made by that everything in the flyer was included in the bid. Right? Maybe, the other bids could not Match the Bid Full Throttle made. I have no idea, do you?

By the way, Other than being a 3 hour trip away from FT, I have no affiliation with that track. I just get tired of the constant bitching and complaining in this Hobby, it never stops and it Hurts the hobby! Yes, I understand everyone has an opinion but how much should your opinion count if you do not know the Whole Story? For a Track Representative, don't you think it can get frustrating to see everything everyone writes, knowing they don't know the Whole Story? That may be why you are getting the smart-ass remarks. Just sayin'.

Eric, thank you! To you as well.
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:56 AM   #47
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So are you going to answer his question at least? Or just make a lame attempt and making fun of me? I can take it.. I got broad shoulders unlike some! Glad to see the only way you can communicate with personal attacks as always.

The attitude you have on this thread from the beginning with questions, the Worlds thread attitude and the attitude you had at the Snowbirds is what garners responses like this.

Continue on. I got more motors and batteries to go put stickers on and continue to push them out the door faster than I can get them in!

EA
Eric not making fun of u that is what u do and you charge for that service which comes at a price.

So explain the difference we provide a facility that imposes fees on us that is passed on to the consumer at a decent amount if you think it is to excessive the choice is yours to come or not

You told me you don't like asphalt that u won't be coming to the event or supporting the event so u come on here just to stir it up

Attitude comes to those who ask with sarcasm it is plain and simple
It's the nonsense that comes with those that spend top dollar for there gear & whine about the small fees that keeps tracks alive
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Old 05-08-2014, 12:20 PM   #48
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And Gas used to cost $0.10/gallon!
Yup, uh-huh, and I remember when a sodee pop cost a shiny nickle!!!

Too much complaining about cost going on. It's a huge, quality venue. And not attached to the welfare system, it's not free to operate. Easier to be the critic it seems for some...
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Old 05-08-2014, 12:27 PM   #49
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Eric not making fun of u that is what u do and you charge for that service which comes at a price.

So explain the difference we provide a facility that imposes fees on us that is passed on to the consumer at a decent amount if you think it is to excessive the choice is yours to come or not

You told me you don't like asphalt that u won't be coming to the event or supporting the event so u come on here just to stir it up

Attitude comes to those who ask with sarcasm it is plain and simple
It's the nonsense that comes with those that spend top dollar for there gear & whine about the small fees that keeps tracks alive
You want to get technical about it not hardly anyone in the US that sells anything RC related (motor or battery) "makes" it. They all buy from a factory that actually makes the products to their specs and then that company sells it. Just like I do with batteries. Pretty sure youve never heard me claim I "make" anything!

I dont mind asphalt racing but its not my favorite just because we dont race it around here and get any track time like guys in FL and other parts of the country. As for me not coming or supporting the race I made up my mind at the Snowbirds after our conversation and you seemingly "knowing" everything and the piss poor attitude you had there in conversations with myself and a few other people. From that day on I knew I would never go to or be associated with a race you were involved in if you want the truth.

And no I didnt come here to just "stir" stuff up. If I was I could have done that after your 2nd or 3rd post of being a smart ass to everyone who asked simple questions and you ripped them for it....Including the Jackson RC guys....Some of the nicest track owners around. Perhaps you should go back up there and visit. You could deff learn a few things from them and how to promote a race and answer your potential racers questions.

EA
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Old 05-08-2014, 12:37 PM   #50
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To me the cost isn't the issue for these events...100-150 bux, i don't care... I would spend that or more at a ball game or at the movies or whatever. If I am honest, the cost for the events are too low. The problems that face RC events are way bigger than that unfortunately.

As I see it, what limits participation in bigger events are the insane schedules and mismatched competition profiles. When the majority of the fields are comprised of amateurs or partially sponsored drivers, starting in the middle of the week... and running for 3-5 days is tough. The costs associated with me being away from my family, missing work and waiting around for 12 hours to race my car twice keeps me away. I am confident I am not alone in that camp. If we somehow limited fields, raised entry fees and reduced the time commitment for certain events, I would almost guarantee more people would want to attend. However, what you must then incorporate are 'qualifying' events to allow entry into more prestigious races. I think this would start to force drivers to go to regional events to qualify for national events. What this would lead to is regional level racers competing against drivers that are more their caliber, as opposed to a club racer going to a national event and getting waxed by drivers who really deserve to be there.

To put it a different way, if you are a golfer that carries a 10 handicap, you have no business playing in the masters with the pros for an entire week, even if you can afford the entry fee, have a nice set of clubs and can take off work. If the masters allowed the 10 handicap golfer to participate, he would become extremely frustrated because the event would be exhausting (too long), expensive from a time and money perspective, and he didn't have a chance to compete anyway. He would likely become more frustrated with golf and eventually find something else to do with his time.

This event in particular (Electric On-Road Nationals) is 5 days long... really? is that necessary? I would bet there are not more than 20 total heats? why cant you do that in 3 days? or two for that matter? It costs me WAY more to take off work that it does to enter the event...And even if you look at the Electric 1/8 scale nationals last week... there were like 60 entries... the event started on a Wednesday and didn't finish till Sunday? who can even do that if your not a paid driver? The racers lose, the track loses and the event looks terrible... its bad business in my opinion.

Bottom line, I believe big races need to be shorter, more expensive and have qualifying events that gain entry. You would have more importance placed on local and regional level races which are shorter and more competitive. It would encourage a club level racer to aspire to be a regional level racer... and a regional level racer to become a national level racer.... If that happened, RC promoters and racers would all be happier and have more fun!
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Old 05-08-2014, 01:49 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by EAMotorsports View Post
You want to get technical about it not hardly anyone in the US that sells anything RC related (motor or battery) "makes" it. They all buy from a factory that actually makes the products to their specs and then that company sells it. Just like I do with batteries. Pretty sure youve never heard me claim I "make" anything!

I dont mind asphalt racing but its not my favorite just because we dont race it around here and get any track time like guys in FL and other parts of the country. As for me not coming or supporting the race I made up my mind at the Snowbirds after our conversation and you seemingly "knowing" everything and the piss poor attitude you had there in conversations with myself and a few other people. From that day on I knew I would never go to or be associated with a race you were involved in if you want the truth.

And no I didnt come here to just "stir" stuff up. If I was I could have done that after your 2nd or 3rd post of being a smart ass to everyone who asked simple questions and you ripped them for it....Including the Jackson RC guys....Some of the nicest track owners around. Perhaps you should go back up there and visit. You could deff learn a few things from them and how to promote a race and answer your potential racers questions.

EA
What I love is how some exaggerate what I've done
I don't sell RC or make a living off of it I don't have a hobby shop to support the track
I don't have city support like other tracks
you ask a question you get an answer take it how u want it I'm not going to sugar coat it
My point being was to clarify everyone's time has a cost that was the example of comparison not to make fun of you but I do enjoy a good argument so bring it
My skin is not that thin but it does come with what you throw
I do not get volunteers to help out we have to pay for it all and we do it but if you expect sympathy from me then your kidding yourself the price is the price everyones going to bicker but I don't care cause in the end you can't please everyone
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Old 05-08-2014, 01:55 PM   #52
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What I love is how some exaggerate what I've done
I don't sell RC or make a living off of it I don't have a hobby shop to support the track
I don't have city support like other tracks
you ask a question you get an answer take it how u want it I'm not going to sugar coat it
My point being was to clarify everyone's time has a cost that was the example of comparison not to make fun of you but I do enjoy a good argument so bring it
My skin is not that thin but it does come with what you throw
I do not get volunteers to help out we have to pay for it all and we do it but if you expect sympathy from me then your kidding yourself the price is the price everyones going to bicker but I don't care cause in the end you can't please everyone


People only volunteer to help people that are friendly and helpful to them. You should keep that in mind.

Your attitude in the last few pages of this thread make me think my decision to not attempt to attend the worlds and now the nationals a very wise one.

I had a very pleasurable experience in dealing with ROAR when we hosted the carpet nationals last year and wanted to start supporting them more but not when the races are being held at the track of a combative and what appears to be hostile track owner.

Good luck to you at your event. I think you are going to need it.
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Old 05-08-2014, 02:00 PM   #53
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To me the cost isn't the issue for these events...100-150 bux, i don't care... I would spend that or more at a ball game or at the movies or whatever. If I am honest, the cost for the events are too low. The problems that face RC events are way bigger than that unfortunately.

As I see it, what limits participation in bigger events are the insane schedules and mismatched competition profiles. When the majority of the fields are comprised of amateurs or partially sponsored drivers, starting in the middle of the week... and running for 3-5 days is tough. The costs associated with me being away from my family, missing work and waiting around for 12 hours to race my car twice keeps me away. I am confident I am not alone in that camp. If we somehow limited fields, raised entry fees and reduced the time commitment for certain events, I would almost guarantee more people would want to attend. However, what you must then incorporate are 'qualifying' events to allow entry into more prestigious races. I think this would start to force drivers to go to regional events to qualify for national events. What this would lead to is regional level racers competing against drivers that are more their caliber, as opposed to a club racer going to a national event and getting waxed by drivers who really deserve to be there.

To put it a different way, if you are a golfer that carries a 10 handicap, you have no business playing in the masters with the pros for an entire week, even if you can afford the entry fee, have a nice set of clubs and can take off work. If the masters allowed the 10 handicap golfer to participate, he would become extremely frustrated because the event would be exhausting (too long), expensive from a time and money perspective, and he didn't have a chance to compete anyway. He would likely become more frustrated with golf and eventually find something else to do with his time.

This event in particular (Electric On-Road Nationals) is 5 days long... really? is that necessary? I would bet there are not more than 20 total heats? why cant you do that in 3 days? or two for that matter? It costs me WAY more to take off work that it does to enter the event...And even if you look at the Electric 1/8 scale nationals last week... there were like 60 entries... the event started on a Wednesday and didn't finish till Sunday? who can even do that if your not a paid driver? The racers lose, the track loses and the event looks terrible... its bad business in my opinion.

Bottom line, I believe big races need to be shorter, more expensive and have qualifying events that gain entry. You would have more importance placed on local and regional level races which are shorter and more competitive. It would encourage a club level racer to aspire to be a regional level racer... and a regional level racer to become a national level racer.... If that happened, RC promoters and racers would all be happier and have more fun!
Fully agree on certain observations this is a great read
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Old 05-08-2014, 02:05 PM   #54
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George, I dont know you from the stranger standing next to me in a line, but I know EA. Im pretty sure he doesn't make his living in this biz either. His Biz is a side deal for him. He is well respected. He supports the hobby he has a passion for in many different ways... not the least of which spending countless hours answering questions and helping people on this site with product questions, even if he isn't making money from them.

People buy the motors and batteries with his name on them because they know he is there to help with the product when there are questions, while also knowing they are buying quality stuff at a fair price. He is a multiple national champion and a nice dude. By you giving him a hard time on a public forum where he is well respected is hurting you way more than him.

Maybe its a better idea to be a pick to someone else... EA is not the one I would be picking a fight with at this point. I'm not a national champion by any stretch... but if EA and Larry are gonna say... 'no thanks' , i'm afraid a lot of others will likely do the same! And then we are gonna have another national event with 38 drivers in attendance

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Old 05-08-2014, 02:08 PM   #55
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People only volunteer to help people that are friendly and helpful to them. You should keep that in mind.

Your attitude in the last few pages of this thread make me think my decision to not attempt to attend the worlds and now the nationals a very wise one.

I had a very pleasurable experience in dealing with ROAR when we hosted the carpet nationals last year and wanted to start supporting them more but not when the races are being held at the track of a combative and what appears to be hostile track owner.

Good luck to you at your event. I think you are going to need it.
Not my event it's a Roar event I just supply the track
Lmao Hostile
Your decision to not come to the worlds was decided when we announced the tire or do u need a copy of your comment that was posted months ago
Let me guess I had an attitude when we talked also at snowbirds as well
Larry we don't get volunteers cause everyone just wants to race & I understand that so we have hired help
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Old 05-08-2014, 02:15 PM   #56
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George, I dont know you from the stranger standing next to me in a line, but I know EA. Im pretty sure he doesn't make his living in this biz either. His Biz is a side deal for him. He is well respected. He supports the hobby he has a passion for in many different ways... not the least of which spending countless hours answering questions and helping people on this site with product questions, even if he isn't making money from them.

People buy the motors and batteries with his name on them because they know he is there to help with the product when there are questions, while also knowing they are buying quality stuff at a fair price. He is a multiple national champion and a nice dude. By you giving him a hard time on a public forum where he is well respected is hurting you way more than him.

Maybe its a better idea to be a pick to someone else... EA is not the one I would be picking a fight with at this point. I'm not a national champion by any stretch... but if EA and Larry are gonna say... 'no thanks' , i'm afraid a lot of others will likely do the same! And then we are gonna have another national event with 38 drivers in attendance

peace
Thanks for your recommendation Justin not picking a fight just making a point national champion or not we are the same people at the end of the day
He worked hard to build his brand not for free
We worked hard to get the track up to par
He has cost we have cost
Our argument stems from nothing that has to do with the nationals just clear nonsense that has no logic
This is not a biz for me also I have an everyday job so I have to take time off from work also just like the racers do
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Old 05-08-2014, 02:26 PM   #57
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Not my event it's a Roar event I just supply the track
Lmao Hostile
Your decision to not come to the worlds was decided when we announced the tire or do u need a copy of your comment that was posted months ago
Let me guess I had an attitude when we talked also at snowbirds as well
Larry we don't get volunteers cause everyone just wants to race & I understand that so we have hired help
No George, the 3 seconds we spoke at the Snowbirds was fine, even dandy. And from what I can remember you were a good dude the few times I met you at the first 360.

I'm basing my opinion on the strange decisions that have been made involving the worlds tires. Which was obviously a debacle at the Pre-Worlds and your attitude towards guys on this thread and what appears to be your general philosophy "Its my way or the highway".

This is a hobby. People spend their hard earned money on going to these races. There are alternatives. You have to realize that when speaking on a public forum to potential customers.

People with experience hosting these types of races are trying to offer you some helpful advice and you are fighting it at every turn.

Recent history will show that Roar On Road nationals are not the most well attended races for whatever reason. You should be trying to do everything in your power to get people to attend and not turn people off from attending.

Again this is all my opinion speaking from experience. You can take the advice or leave it.
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Old 05-08-2014, 03:47 PM   #58
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No George, the 3 seconds we spoke at the Snowbirds was fine, even dandy. And from what I can remember you were a good dude the few times I met you at the first 360.

I'm basing my opinion on the strange decisions that have been made involving the worlds tires. Which was obviously a debacle at the Pre-Worlds and your attitude towards guys on this thread and what appears to be your general philosophy "Its my way or the highway".

This is a hobby. People spend their hard earned money on going to these races. There are alternatives. You have to realize that when speaking on a public forum to potential customers.

People with experience hosting these types of races are trying to offer you some helpful advice and you are fighting it at every turn.

Recent history will show that Roar On Road nationals are not the most well attended races for whatever reason. You should be trying to do everything in your power to get people to attend and not turn people off from attending.

Again this is all my opinion speaking from experience. You can take the advice or leave it.
Thanks Larry
You forgot it's been longer than that 05 Nats in ct
This is not directed to u
I'm simple short to the point on my answers
If you feel there was a smart as comment maybe your ? Is the problem
I just can't get over the complaining over $10 for practice or pit spots
We did not build the facility or get the material for free
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Old 05-08-2014, 04:13 PM   #59
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So what you are saying is that racers shouldn't voice their concerns/opinions? Sure, some are written a bit sarcastically, but some are well written, legitimate questions. The majority of the responses however, are with an attitude. A track owner could have the nicest facility in the country. But if turnouts are really low, I would think that the owner(s) would want to know why. Obviously you can't please everyone, but with a "if you don't like it, don't come" mentality, maybe some people just don't care why more racers aren't showing up.
Turnouts are low but it is more due to financial reasons
We charge $20 for a club race everything included
When I refer to don't come it's merely if you can't afford it then don't put yourself in a bind just a shorter version
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Old 05-08-2014, 05:16 PM   #60
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I'm basing my opinion on the strange decisions that have been made involving the worlds tires. Which was obviously a debacle at the Pre-Worlds and your attitude towards guys on this thread and what appears to be your general philosophy "Its my way or the highway".

Larry you were not at the Pre worlds you were not at the last Nationals that was held in Florida
Odd that I did not select the tire that you Are sponsored to run
Odd that I can't seem to find to who on this thread is trying to help other than compare or complain
The pre worlds tire has nothing to do with this thread but seems your picking for an argument
Philosophy is you pay for what u get and boy did we pay and the facility shows it
Hate it or love it sorry I did not spend my money wisely so u can enjoy it for free
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