R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-24-2005, 06:53 AM   #76
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 265
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by belgianchamp
Helo,

Whats the best Motor Tuner?There are allot of tuners that make monster based stock motors,BUT WICH ONE IS THE BEST?Br00d, EA, DC, BMI, Putnam,blablabla,.....
Like I always tell newbies at our track.
When it comes to stock motors, Once you cut the com and re-brush it, it no longer is an EA, BMI, etc tuned motor. It's right back to a normal old Trinity Monster stock motor.

So to pay $41 for a stock motor is pretty rediculous.

The only way I would pay more is if they rebalanced the arm (which technically is illegal but no way to really tech it), some re-zap cans, which to some is a good thing and to others a bad thing. Normally if I have a motor that has been rezapped then you need to zap it every week or the can gets super weak.

Most of them break in the bushings, which you can buy a $5 reamer and if you know what you are doing can do that yourself.

Most of the time a good stock motor depends on how good the machine decided to wind the arm that day and how good the magnets are in the can.
erock1331 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2005, 09:08 PM   #77
Tech Regular
 
RandomFellow's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Plymouth, MI
Posts: 311
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

I guess the biggest benefit of using a tuner's motor is that they purchased a crate of motors and have gone through them, weeding out the bad ones. And, there are some things they do beyond Trinity, such as aligning brushes and puting better brushes ad springs in.

IDK, personally, I just buy a Trinity "Pro" version and do the rest myself. But, I'm crazy like that. (And, I have all the tools and a lathe, which most new guys don't have).
RandomFellow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2005, 04:11 AM   #78
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 835
Default

I have to agree with erock.your best bet is to go to RC4less and order you a generic monster stock motor for $24.50 and tune it yourself,if you don't know how go to motortuningsecrets.com and it will explain the whole process in detail.Guys this really is the smartest way.
Hyper1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2005, 04:56 AM   #79
Tech Elite
 
ChadCapece's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: CofC
Posts: 3,313
Default

Is the generic version balanced?
ChadCapece is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2005, 05:56 AM   #80
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 265
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomFellow
I guess the biggest benefit of using a tuner's motor is that they purchased a crate of motors and have gone through them, weeding out the bad ones.
.
Do you think Trinity takes the bad ones back ?
erock1331 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2005, 05:58 AM   #81
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 265
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro4Capece
Is the generic version balanced?
Yes, if they need it. Some that do not have holes in the stack apparently did not need it.

Everytime I bought a KC stock arm, it always had pretty big holes in it. So that tells me most needed a good rebalancing after the factory balancing.
erock1331 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2005, 06:46 AM   #82
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 835
Default

I don't know about the rebalancing,but there are only a few of the builders that do rebalancing anyway,the equipment to properly balance a motor is extremely expensive,I know Brood has a balancer and rebalances IF it needs it.I will say this of all the builders that I've bought from, the Brood motors have performed the best,even after I've rebuilt them.Go to their site and they tell you what has been done to the different levels of motors they sell,they sell generic motors as well.just not as cheap as Bruce at rc4less.
Hyper1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2005, 09:28 AM   #83
Tech Regular
 
Todd Putnam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 392
Default

If a company is truly going to blueprint a motor, and maximize the performance of every possible component, the armature needs to be checked and rebalanced, on an actual armature spin balancer. Not a prop balancer, razor blades, etc;
Hyper1 is correct, these armature balancers are quite expensive and rare as well.
There are many smaller companies that are tuning stocks that don't own or have access to a balancer. This is fine, just be sure that it is reflected in the price and you know what you're actually buying.

The most time-consuming step of our blueprinting process is the balancing process.

Every stock motor (Generic Versions) as they come from Japan are balanced at Tokyo Mecs, Sagami, etc, to a minimum standard...not nearly to the degree or tolerances we balance them to.

If you are looking for the maximum amount of performance possible, I'd suggest purchasing a tuned/blueprinted stock from a company who actually balances/rebalances the arm. If you'd rather save the $5-$10 and do the basic comm cutting/hood aligning/magnet saturation/etc; yourself, that's fine as well. Just know that there is more performance that can be extracted from a stock motor than what an individual racer can accomplish on their own.

It's up to the racer to decide if they want to leave that additional performance on the table or not.

Good Luck, and I hope this helps shed some light on the subject.

Todd Putnam
Putnam Propulsion
www.putnampropulsion.com
518-452-0422
Todd Putnam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2005, 09:38 AM   #84
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 265
Default

Good points Todd.

By the way J Patch said you would donate some door prizes for our Fall Classic race.
What is a good time for me to call you to talk to you about it?

Todd do you just sell rebalanced replacement Monster arms?
I have some good cans but looking for some replacement arms and nobody seems to sell those anymore.

Later
Eric H.
erock1331 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2005, 10:33 AM   #85
Tech Regular
 
Todd Putnam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 392
Default

Eric: We do sell arms when we can get them. The problem with just selling a rebalanced arm is there is no way to determine how good, (or bad) it will be until you build it into a motor. People purchase a balanced arm, bolt it in their motor, and it may yield less power, due to being poorly wound, etc. Basically, they bought a dud arm that has killer balance. Not that it happens often, but it can happen.Then you have an unhappy customer.
To take the time to try it in a can, etc; isn't feasible. It makes no sense to take the time to totally blueprint, break in and dyno the motor, only to disassemble it to sell the arm out of it.
If the customer purchases an enitre motor that has been balanced and blueprinted from the ground up, we can guarantee horsepower.
In short, buying just a balanced arm isn't a guarantee that it's going to be faster, just that it's balanced.
Call the shop 9-5 M-F EST if you need to talk...

Thanks,
Todd Putnam
Putnam Propulsion
518-452-0422
www.putnampropulsion.com
Todd Putnam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2005, 11:31 AM   #86
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 265
Default

Todd
Yes I can see where you are coming from, if the arm is wound horribly then there is not much anybody can do to make it run better.
I have had some arms where one of the winds is hanging out like 1/8"
I thought to myself how in the world could they send one out that way.

I am out of town beginning tomorrow I will call Monday,
Thanks
erock1331 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2005, 12:01 PM   #87
Tech Elite
 
ChadCapece's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: CofC
Posts: 3,313
Default

Todd, do ya'll tune each motor individually, or do you have a brush/spring combo that you put on every motor?
ChadCapece is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2005, 02:09 PM   #88
Tech Addict
 
Jmccormick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: maine
Posts: 626
Default

Some good points have been made on this topic. I have run motors from tuners such as Fantom, Putnam, Trinity pro versions, team checkpoint and now Hyperform and all have been fast but I have found that when a motor is new you do have a slight advantage for about 2-3 runs then they tend to loose that edge they had and it's time to freshen them up with the exception of the checkpoint motor that I have with about 20 runs on it now without having to touch it. I have found that learning the basics of tuning either from advice from some of the tuners themselves or from some articles in rc car action and just asking some of the other racers what they do to thier handouts have been very helpful because at some point you will be using handout motors(a lot of tracks use them at trophy races) and they usualy dont come with brushes or springs and the differance between a good motor and a bad one lies with you and what you do with the motor and just putting a set of brushes and springs on them usualy wont net good results.
here are some things I do.
1) disasemble motor completely
2) alighn the hood ( I use the trinity tool) and check the brushes after the break in run to see if they are aligned and wearing on the middle of the brush evenly.
3)break in the bushings I use an old com and a dremel with some sort of gritty compound
(I use a 3m rubbing compound) I have heard toothpaste works to.
4)seat the bushings I use a wooden dowel and a small hammer
5)shim the arm
6)true the com
7)lighly oil the bushings before installing the arm
8)assemble motor
9)spin the arm to see to see if it spins ok
10)install brushes and springs varries depending on what the motor is
11) run the brushes in using 2.0 volts. (I use a turbo35 and the trinity work station witha cooling fan) for about 2 minutes.
Jmccormick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2005, 03:53 PM   #89
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 835
Default

So what your saying Todd is that once you buy a blueprinted motor, run it and then have to rebuild it it's no longer a bluprinted motor?
Hyper1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2005, 04:10 PM   #90
Tech Elite
 
Yeti35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SL, UT
Posts: 2,804
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper1
So what your saying Todd is that once you buy a blueprinted motor, run it and then have to rebuild it it's no longer a bluprinted motor?
It is pretty safe to say once you rebuild any of the "tuner" motors you are on your own to tune it again. This is why I personally do not get too excited about the name on the can once you learn how to do it yourself. I don't own a dyno and probably never will do to one the expense and two I don't believe the numbers are always that accurate. What I mean by that you can look at a label and pick out one with the best numbers and it can translate to crap on the track where I have also had the opposite where the numbers were mediocre and it ripped on the track. The track is your dyno in my opinion. I'm not trying to say I know it all for I don't, this is just my own opinion and personal experience.
__________________
JRXS Type R, I have four of them!! ;) ( Yes, I still have them!!)And racing one of them again!!
22 3.0SR
22T 2.0 w/ Exotech chassis
Yeti35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Whats the best 27 turn motor gunlocators Electric On-Road 12 04-30-2007 03:42 PM
whats the fastest 35 turn knightrider tc4 Electric On-Road 4 08-26-2005 01:23 AM
which is the fastest 23-turn motor??? rbboy Electric On-Road 5 07-21-2005 06:22 PM
27 Turn Stock Motor Racing pcmlc Electric On-Road 20 04-05-2005 09:37 AM
Which 23 Turn Stock Motor rfree02 Electric On-Road 0 04-28-2003 08:42 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 09:07 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net