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Old 08-18-2005, 09:36 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adr3naline fix
i cannot find a webpage that explains how to tune a motor.....
Here you go:

http://www.motortuningsecrets.com/tunestockmotor.html

I also highly recommend Big Jim's RC Motor Black Book (RIP Big Jim )

As for Stock Motors, Trinity has really spent the time developing some great motors (though, the MVP is nice if tuned properly). Trinity has three choices. The P2K2 is a very tourqey motor (and the most powerful stock motor sold today) for tight, technical tracks. The Green Machine is tuned for high-end, so it should be used for large, flowing tracks. The Monster is a mediocre motor that does nothing well. I would try the P2K2 fo your track first. I'm sure you'll whip all your friends who think the Monster is a great motor. Just make sure to gear up a tooth or two from recommended ratios.
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Old 08-20-2005, 07:30 AM   #32
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thanks a lot random fellow. I will def. be picking a P2K2 up then!

My track has a lot of tight turns and short runways so that should be good!

www.roadragehobbyspeedway.com
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Old 08-20-2005, 09:01 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by adr3naline fix
thanks a lot random fellow. I will def. be picking a P2K2 up then!

My track has a lot of tight turns and short runways so that should be good!

www.roadragehobbyspeedway.com
THere is a reason why everyone is saying the Monster....it is the most consistant and very realiable motor out.
I pay the same price as you will if you buy one off the self so why not buy one tuned. I like EA for motor tuners.
Not to bash the P2K2 because I have one....But as far as being fast....there is only a hand fuill of guys that I have seen being fast in Touring Car with it...I love it in my B4 for the great lowend it has....
But for Touring Car.....MONSTER Only........
GO and look at all the last few months of big races and see what motors the ExPERT STOCK winner is using....9 times out of 10 it is a MONSTER BASED motor...
So I have no problems with tuning motors yourself...If you have the hankering for it more power to ya...I would rather spend my time tuning my car to perfection...
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these have been my opinions...right,wrong, or indifferent they are just that OPINIONS...
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Old 08-20-2005, 09:55 AM   #34
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First off, here is a link to another website explaining the ins and outs of motor tuning:

http://www.rccaraction.com/rc/articles/dialin_stock.asp

But, to be honest, you wont find better tuning information than at Big Jim's Motor Forums at http://www.rccars.com (R.I.P. Big Jim ). Now then,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Shookie
THere is a reason why everyone is saying the Monster....it is the most consistant and very realiable motor out.
I pay the same price as you will if you buy one off the self so why not buy one tuned. I like EA for motor tuners.
Not to bash the P2K2 because I have one....But as far as being fast....there is only a hand fuill of guys that I have seen being fast in Touring Car with it...I love it in my B4 for the great lowend it has....
But for Touring Car.....MONSTER Only........
GO and look at all the last few months of big races and see what motors the ExPERT STOCK winner is using....9 times out of 10 it is a MONSTER BASED motor...
So I have no problems with tuning motors yourself...If you have the hankering for it more power to ya...I would rather spend my time tuning my car to perfection...
-Shookie <><
these have been my opinions...right,wrong, or indifferent they are just that OPINIONS...
First off, if the Monster is so great, and it was the heir apparent to the P2K2, then why does Trinity still sell the P2K2? Simply put, it is the most powerful stock motor available. It spools up like a demon and spool-up is king on the TC track.

Now, that being said, many National races are run on larger tracks, where the increase in top-end of the Monster will give it an advantage. Also, many "professional" stock-class racers are sponsored by smaller, up-and-coming tuners, and there are not many up-and-coming tuners carrying the P2K2 because they lack the manpower, capital, and experience to maintain another line. The big tuners [Trinity (if you call their "Pro" version "tuned"], Paradigm, Brood, Birdman, Express, etc.) do carry the P2K2, and I'm sure their drivers would be running the P2K2 on this track, which looks to me like an ideal candidate for the P2K2 or a tuned MVP. (Hey EddieO, what do you think? - Rather have a professional opinion on this matter rather than mine).

Last edited by RandomFellow; 08-20-2005 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 08-20-2005, 08:39 PM   #35
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Big Jim was certainly a great guy and he did a lot for our hobby but he didn't know everything and he wasn't always 100% right. The Monster IS always faster in sedan. I don't race off road so I can speak for that class but on road the Monster rules.

Why does Trinity still sell the P2K2? Because it is a good motor and guys like Random still buy loads of them. There is no sense discontinuing a product there is still demand for even if it is not as fast as the new stuff.

As was said before the P2K2 is a great motor but if you look at the A-Mains of big open motor stock races you will see the entire A and B filled with Monster equipped cars. It doesn't take long for racers to figure out stuff. If the P2K2 was faster everyone would be using it.
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Old 08-20-2005, 08:49 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomFellow
First off, here is a link to another website explaining the ins and outs of motor tuning:

http://www.rccaraction.com/rc/articles/dialin_stock.asp

But, to be honest, you wont find better tuning information than at Big Jim's Motor Forums at http://www.rccars.com (R.I.P. Big Jim ). Now then,


It spools up like a demon and spool-up is king on the TC track.

The big tuners [Trinity (if you call their "Pro" version "tuned"], Paradigm, Brood, Birdman, Express, etc.) do carry the P2K2, and I'm sure their drivers would be running the P2K2 on this track, which looks to me like an ideal candidate for the P2K2 or a tuned MVP.
I'll agree with you about Big jim's book being the best info out there but you must not have read it all the way through.

Spool up means nothing....Thats a number the Fantom dyno uses which is worthless in on track performance. Wattage is the most important factor in a motor. Thats what Big Jim always preached.

Also In that list you posted I would say that there is only 1 company you listed that is considered a "big tuner" according to OEM sales with Trinity...and its not Trinity.

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Old 08-20-2005, 09:00 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM

As was said before the P2K2 is a great motor but if you look at the A-Mains of big open motor stock races you will see the entire A and B filled with Monster equipped cars. It doesn't take long for racers to figure out stuff. If the P2K2 was faster everyone would be using it.


Think about this:

At most national races, there is a mod class with factory drivers. And Well, how often does a national race use a track that is 100x80? Not often, right?!? Probably b/c those tracks are too small to open up with mod on asphalt, or that's what the majority consenses agrees on. So when a track is 200x150 a monster will win. But on that track that is 100x80 (which, I would guess is probably the average sized track in America) the torque of the P2K2 MIGHT excell.

I'm not a motor expert, or even a guru But I've got a general understanding of the difference in EPIC based motors.
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Old 08-20-2005, 09:09 PM   #38
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We have a carpet track here and its roughly 70x40 and the Monster kills any P2k or P2k2 here. Even the Roar stocks when geared right are better here than a P2k or P2k2. Maybe the guys that ran them didnt know how to gear them or tune them. Ive had dirt racers order Monsters and say that they were way better in offroad than their P2k/2's.

No offence to the late Big Jim because I respected/still do him more than just about anyone in the RC business but I think one of the MAIN reasons he loved the P2k's so much is they were his own design before he left Trinity.

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Old 08-20-2005, 09:14 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAMotorsports
We have a carpet track here and its roughly 70x40 and the Monster kills any P2k or P2k2 here. Even the Roar stocks when geared right are better here than a P2k or P2k2. Maybe the guys that ran them didnt know how to gear them or tune them. Ive had dirt racers order Monsters and say that they were way better in offroad than their P2k/2's.

No offence to the late Big Jim because I respected/still do him more than just about anyone in the RC business but I think one of the MAIN reasons he loved the P2k's so much is they were his own design before he left Trinity.

EA
Does the P2K and P2K2 have more torque on the dyno than monsters? Does it do anything better than a monster?
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Old 08-20-2005, 09:19 PM   #40
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Both have more torque on the dyno. The p2k2 has more RPM than the P2k. But both are several thousand RPM less than a Monster and are lower on wattage too. They run extremely hot because of the gear you have to put on them to make up for the rpm difference in Sedan...especially on longer tracks.

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Old 08-20-2005, 09:25 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAMotorsports
Both have more torque on the dyno. The p2k2 has more RPM than the P2k. But both are several thousand RPM less than a Monster and are lower on wattage too. They run extremely hot because of the gear you have to put on them to make up for the rpm difference in Sedan...especially on longer tracks.

EA
Thanks Eric, Erik, or Erick sorry about the spelling.

Does anybody run any cooling devices on stock motors at big races? Last time I ran stock, I ran a Binary w/o a fan, but it faded real bad late in the race. Just wondering if it would be worth the voltage loss to run a fan and keep from overheating.

thanks again
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Old 08-20-2005, 09:31 PM   #42
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No problem...its Eric.

Yes most guys are running fans at the big races...ON asphalt most run 2 fans. ON carpet most are running 1 fan. The one that Trinity makes that goes on the Endbell actually works very very well if you have a car that it will work on.

The one made in the UK also works well Ive heard. Cool Cans I think is it.

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Old 08-20-2005, 09:49 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by EAMotorsports
No problem...its Eric.

Yes most guys are running fans at the big races...ON asphalt most run 2 fans. ON carpet most are running 1 fan. The one that Trinity makes that goes on the Endbell actually works very very well if you have a car that it will work on.

The one made in the UK also works well Ive heard. Cool Cans I think is it.

EA
thanks Eric.

I've been running the Reedy heatsink/fan in 19t, so I'll just run it in stock too. I would run the Trinity fan, but they won't work with either of my shaftdrive cars.
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Old 08-21-2005, 06:55 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAMotorsports
No problem...its Eric.

Yes most guys are running fans at the big races...ON asphalt most run 2 fans. ON carpet most are running 1 fan. The one that Trinity makes that goes on the Endbell actually works very very well if you have a car that it will work on.

The one made in the UK also works well Ive heard. Cool Cans I think is it.

EA
My only problem about the Cool Can Fans is I would think your car would tweak a bit since you are not putting the screws exactly how they should be, being that I have counter sunk screws and adding another plate on top of the top deck than putting a button head screw through them both would allow some room for tweak....
-Shookie <><
I love the design though...
I just use the ultra stiff lexan off the wing section of my bodies. works great and is very rigid..
Just my thoughts...
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Old 08-21-2005, 11:05 AM   #45
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Boy, I don't think anyone has bothered to pay attention to what the author of this thread is asking. He is running on a small technical track and wants to know what stock motor would be best. On THAT track, a P2K2 would kill a Monster.

Now, let's get to the nonsense that is being given to this new racer:

1) The P2K2 has far greater wattage than the Monster. The only stock motor that has greater wattage was the P2K, which is no longer distributed by Trinity.

2) Running a fan for a stock motor is about the most asinine thing I've ever heard of. Believe it or not, the motor can take the heat. If itís too hot, youíre running too tall a gear. Switch to a better motor if you canít keep up.

3) National races are run on larger tracks (due to the need for a Modified class) than the track this Thread's author runs on, which is why many stock racers will run a Monster for its higher RPM. But, on a small, technical track, torque is a more important factor than RPM as you are constantly accelerating - decelerating - accelerating. (and remember, races aren't won on the straightaways, they're won in the corners - I just love pulling away from a Monster off a turn - makes them look like they're standing still).

4) Big Jim DID NOT disagree with spool-up being an important factor. Why do you think he created the Light Metal armature? See http://www.bigjimracing.net/newsletter.htm . And, don't go talking about Big Jim unless you know what the hell you are talking about.

5) And when I say "Big Tuner", I mean by reputation - not by volume. How the hell would I know the volume of any of these companies unless I worked for Trinity? BUT, everyone knows these brands by their success on the track. Therefore, they are "Big Tuners", at least by reputation.

Final note to this thread's author: Please, oh please, for the love of God, please be very careful when taking advice from your fellow racers. Most people have a herd mentality, so they believe that if everyone is running Monsters, then they must be good. They will preach their newfound "wisdom" till their dying days, and you'll still be smoking them at every turn because you decided to use that gray matter between your ears.
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