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Old 04-21-2014, 12:54 PM   #1
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Default Motor/ESC constantly over heating

Hi all,

I have a 1/10 2WD Arrma Vortex that I just recently bought through Tower. The gearing is 32p 20t pinion and 54t spur (gearing recommended from manufactuer to achieve 60+ mph).

I have within 1 month had to send 2 of the ESCs that came with this car back for replacement under warranty. The 1st one went up in smoke and melted really bad while running it up and down the street, the 2nd one just quit working and only cogged really really bad but would not make the car go forward or backwards while running up and down the street.

The motor is a 3600kv Arrma BLX 390060 4 pole, it gets very very hot, I don't have a temp gun but it gets way too hot to touch. I replaced that motor with a Reedy 6100kv 540 sensorless motor that i ran all last summer with no problems and a Hobyking 120a ESC, a 3S lipo one with 2200mah 50C and another with 5000mah 45-90C bursts. I even changed the pinion to a the pinion 15t.

Still this motor too gets very very hot and has a really bas burnt smell to it now. Checked to make sure nothing was bent as far as drive shafts etc... Car seems to roll freely and smooth when I push it on the floor.

Any suggestions as to why I'm having these issues? Like I said, I ran the Hobbyking ESC and Reedy motor all last year with no heating issues in a 2WD 1/10 Brushless Duratrax Evader.

I'm to the point of sending this thing back and asking for a refund if I can't figure out what's causing these issues.

Thanks
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Old 04-21-2014, 07:14 PM   #2
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That isn't a typo, you are running 3S? If so, thats your problem. That is too hot a motor for 3S (its only rated for 2S). I think your gearing is off to boot but I don't enough about the car to say for sure.
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Old 04-21-2014, 07:34 PM   #3
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BTW this thread belongs here --->http://www.rctech.net/forum/rookie-zone-7/
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Old 04-21-2014, 09:15 PM   #4
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Thanks for showing me where the post should've went.

The Arrma motor says it can handle 3s, and I ran the Reedy motor all last summer on a 5000mah 45-90c 3s. Not sure how but I did and had no heat issues.

Just doesn'y make sense for the Arrma motor to get so hot though.

Last edited by jwalk33; 04-21-2014 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 04-22-2014, 02:45 AM   #5
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Gearing is the usual reason for motor overtemp however for it to get that hot its probably a combo of running 3s and overgearing. For sure that Reedy 540 can motor is not suitable for 3S! It smells burnt now because you've fried it I'm afraid - I doubt there is much you can do with it now. Certainly couldnt send it back!

I'm not sure either that the hobbyking esc is really suitable for 3S... You are certainly running it at (or over) its limits. For 3S setups you really need a 1/8th size/type of ESC. My advice is start over with fresh electrics designed to do the job you are asking of it. Right now the stuff you've been using is probably fried.
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Old 04-22-2014, 05:17 AM   #6
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Either over geared or a tight drivetrain. Clean the bearings a nod check to make sure it is turning freely.
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Old 04-22-2014, 07:24 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwalk33 View Post
Thanks for showing me where the post should've went.

The Arrma motor says it can handle 3s, and I ran the Reedy motor all last summer on a 5000mah 45-90c 3s. Not sure how but I did and had no heat issues.

Just doesn'y make sense for the Arrma motor to get so hot though.
The capacity and the punch dont matter in this case. You were pushing more voltage and amps than the motor could handle. That excess energy turns into heat. That motor is somewhere around a 5.5t and even then I'm betting that is over the limit for the esc.

While you may have gotten away with it some last year, you were living on borrowed time.
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Old 04-22-2014, 08:23 AM   #8
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I was only talking about sending the Arrma car back, not the Reedy motor. I bought that motor last year.

The only other thing I can think of are the tires look taller than the tires I ran last year with the 120a ESC, Reedy motor and 3s lipo. The ESC is for 1/8 motors.

Here's a vid of what I did to the Arrma Vortex, NOTE: I only changed to the gearing this guy recommended.

Ok guess I can't post urls yet. But try searching youtube for "How to make an ARRMA VORTEKS BLX do 65+ mph!"
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:05 AM   #9
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Bigger wheels/tires affect the FDR so the bigger the wheels the higher the gearing needs to be! If you've just stuck bigger wheels on and not changed the gearing no wander the thing overheats!
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:30 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkiiina View Post
The capacity and the punch dont matter in this case. You were pushing more voltage and amps than the motor could handle. That excess energy turns into heat. That motor is somewhere around a 5.5t and even then I'm betting that is over the limit for the esc.

While you may have gotten away with it some last year, you were living on borrowed time.
Ok I agree with you on the Reedy motor, now why do you assume the Arrma brushless motor was getting extremly hot? It can handle 3s and I don't believe it was over or under geared. I was running 20/54, which was recommended by the manufacturer.
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:35 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan_vector View Post
Bigger wheels/tires affect the FDR so the bigger the wheels the higher the gearing needs to be! If you've just stuck bigger wheels on and not changed the gearing no wander the thing overheats!
The car was bone stock, I only changed to the recommended gearing the manufacturer suggested (20/54) to see speeds of 60+mph. However the "stock" ESCs kept burning up. So I sent them back under warranty; this is when I installed the Reedy motor and Hobbking 120a ESC, which I ran all last summer in in a 1/10 2WD which is very identical to the Arrma, in which I keep having issues with. No matter what ESC/motor combo I use. Only noticeable difference is the Arrma tires look taller
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:52 AM   #12
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So we've had like 5 people tell you that you're overgeared and running too much motor, and yet you continue to ask why your motor is burning up.

We've answered your question. Just because you don't believe we have, doesn't mean that we haven't already answered it.

Short Answer: Too much motor for a 3s Lipo AND overgeared. Most likely both. Don't listen to what the manufacturer says. Arrma is like Traxxas, only worse. Sure, your car will go 60mph, but that doesn't mean it'll do it more than once.
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:59 AM   #13
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Before I go any further. You really should be looking at this thread: http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...ex-thread.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwalk33 View Post
Ok I agree with you on the Reedy motor, now why do you assume the Arrma brushless motor was getting extremly hot? It can handle 3s and I don't believe it was over or under geared. I was running 20/54, which was recommended by the manufacturer.
Define "very hot". My race motors routinely come off around 150-160. That is hot but well within the operating envelope. Anything over 170 and I start looking at gearing, timing, driving style changes.

While it might be able to handle it for short periods, speed runs can be very hard on electronics, especially when you are on a high grip surface. You can't just do pass after pass, cool down time is needed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jwalk33 View Post
The car was bone stock, I only changed to the recommended gearing the manufacturer suggested (20/54) to see speeds of 60+mph. However the "stock" ESCs kept burning up. So I sent them back under warranty; this is when I installed the Reedy motor and Hobbking 120a ESC, which I ran all last summer in in a 1/10 2WD which is very identical to the Arrma, in which I keep having issues with. No matter what ESC/motor combo I use. Only noticeable difference is the Arrma tires look taller
I'm not 100% sure of the specific esc you have but looking at this one ->

https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...arehouse_.html

it clearly states above 7T motors.

Next item is gearing. Looking at the following link ->
http://www.ultimaterc.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=159870

There is a guy talking about doing runs on 2s with similiar gearing. On 3s you need to adjust your gearing.

Looking at the manual for your car -> http://www.competitionx.com/pdf/vehi...tex-manual.pdf

I don't see anywhere it says anything about running 3S. In fact there are several places where it stipulates 2S specifically. I really think you are geared incorrectly for your application.
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:48 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkiiina View Post
Before I go any further. You really should be looking at this thread: http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...ex-thread.html



Define "very hot". My race motors routinely come off around 150-160. That is hot but well within the operating envelope. Anything over 170 and I start looking at gearing, timing, driving style changes.

While it might be able to handle it for short periods, speed runs can be very hard on electronics, especially when you are on a high grip surface. You can't just do pass after pass, cool down time is needed.




I'm not 100% sure of the specific esc you have but looking at this one ->

https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...arehouse_.html

it clearly states above 7T motors.

Next item is gearing. Looking at the following link ->
http://www.ultimaterc.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=159870

There is a guy talking about doing runs on 2s with similiar gearing. On 3s you need to adjust your gearing.

Looking at the manual for your car -> http://www.competitionx.com/pdf/vehi...tex-manual.pdf

I don't see anywhere it says anything about running 3S. In fact there are several places where it stipulates 2S specifically. I really think you are geared incorrectly for your application.
Thanks for all of the helpful info, I'm just sending the RC back and requesting a refund/credit.

Your link to the ESC is correct, that ESC has serverd me very very well last year and I plan to use it again this year or the 150a ver in my 1/8 E converted buggy.

As for the link to my car that you posted, its not working. I bought a 3s 2200mah 50C lipo at about $60 because of what the manufacture states the Arrma Vortex can run, really annoyed at this point and very done with this brand. Not for me!

Thanks again everyone!
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Old 04-22-2014, 05:28 PM   #15
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Here is what I've gathered reading this thread

- User purchased an ARRMA VORTEKS from Tower Hobbies (possibly the BLX model).
Based on Tower's description, the kit comes with a 6-cell NIHM battery. (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...=LXDKGSBB&P=ML)

- User runs the stock speed control & motor (3600kv) which should be able to handle speeds of 60+ mph if running a 3s lipo based on the info I found on this page. (http://www.arrma-rc.com/radio-contro...story-board#41)

- Stock gearing for the Brushless model of this kit appears to be 57 tooth spur & 15 tooth pinion according to the manual found here (http://www.arrma-rc.com/support/downloads)

Manual does advise the following concerning gearing:

Upgraded motors/ESCs and non-standard wheels may require different gear ratios. Try to find the best balance between speed/
acceleration and handling/performance. For help selecting the correct gear ratio for your upgrades visit the GO FOR IT forums at
GOFORIT-RC.com.

- User changes gearing to 54 spur & 20 tooth pinion (max gearing shown in the user manual). Effectively user goes from 57/15=3.8 to a 54/20=2.7 ratio (not including gearbox reduction).

- User installs (unknown battery) and runs the car "up and down the street). Result is motor gets too hot and has issues with 2 ARRMA speeds controls that need to be replaced under warranty (one melted down).

- User installs an aftermarket battery, speed control, & motor from ANOTHER car and has issues with aftermarket motor (possibly overheated stator).

- In the following video created by Hobbico they confirm that a 54 spur/20 pinion with a 3s lipo (2550 mah) will go over 60mph. With a 2s lipo around 50mph. Out of the box (with stock gear/Nihm battery?) a little over 30mph. Note on the high speed runs that they are using a lot of distance on a closed road (not exactly running "up and down" a street).

http://youtu.be/_C-Ept1N-U4


--------

The fact that the user had multiple stock speed controls fail (one melted) and the stock motor overheat as well as aftermarket electronic issues leads me to believe one of more of the following...

- There was a mechanical issue with the gearbox or mechanical issue creating excessive drag (causing the overheating)
- Gear mesh is way too tight causing issues with the motor (which could cause overheating)
** Motor over-geared for environment the vehicle was being used

The reason many of us suspect over-gearing is it takes a lot of distance for high speed runs (as is seen in the video). If you didn't have enough space, you were constantly making the motor/speed control work very hard to get your car up to speed. Not only will this heat up the motor, but it can also over heat the speed control. Without knowing the exact environment you ran your vehicle in (size/length of street), it is hard to know if it is possible to safely reach 60+mph there.
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