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Old 04-02-2014, 02:54 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by DirkW View Post
A little surprised that Australia sticks to ROAR rules... doesn't Australia actually belong to FEMCA?

Comparing this with our rules here** (well 2013 rules, 2014 have not been published yet - at least not on the net*)...

A list of just 3 legal motors in 10.5T
A list of just 4 legal motors in 13.5T
no list for 17.5T, just measurements, for can, rotor, wire, etc.

Really curios what the 2014 rules will be here...

EDIT:
* just saw they were published today. The lists got a little longer.
** = DMC rules (in Germany)
To answer the question, we do have our own list of rules but then refer back to ROAR for the motor/body/battery list. No use redoing the work that has already been done. That's how it came about.

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Old 04-02-2014, 03:08 PM   #92
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I'm sorry, but what is the issue with discussing a current, relevant topic in pretty civilized manner? It may have strayed a little off topic at moments. Is that the reason for threatening to close the whole thread? I'm really confused by your comment

ROAR said the d3.5 17.5 motor wouldn't be legal in April. They did not mention the 13.5. The 13.5 wasn't banned back when the 17.5 motor was banned, yet it suddenly was removed along with the 17.5. It seems to me like a pretty valid reason for discussion. What's the problem? Perhaps if you explain the issue, everyone could avoid the behavior that prompted your comment on this.
IMO, the thread was done at post #20, but it's still open because dead horses need to be beaten, thus I think it's pointless, yet I leave it open.

Not making me come back comes from the fact that the site Admin has had to edit multiple posts. There's 80 some posts, and I don't see much more debate on the issue. Discuss calmly and constructively, that's fine. But if things get out of hand the thread isn't worth babysitting and it will simply be done. I'm putting it in your guys hands, be civil and constructive or it's done. That's my point

(all typed calmly and not trying to sound like a dink)
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:26 PM   #93
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ROAR didnt jsut decide to pull the 13.5 off the list as well. There are reasons that it was never publicized due to the wording in the lawsuit agreement. There is not much else I can say other than it was done the way it was done due to legal disclosure matters within the lawsuit.

EA
Sounds very likey but it doesn't make it right; poor form to accept such an agreement.

Going forward there needs to be a transparent procedure put in place that provides a phase out period that the average racers and retailers are aware of.
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:31 PM   #94
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Don't those same rules apply to the mod class?

I know mod TC is SUPER fast and tough for the average guy. But with anything practice will help. Perhaps it's time to look at the cars/platform and figure out how to make the cars easier to drive at speed. Wider/bigger tires? Heavier chassis? Wider chassis?
At which point there will be something else that effect performance ie motor, battery, ESC, tyres.

Due to the modern day tracks being typically smaller indoor facilities I would be heading in the other direction. Smaller, lighter 380 size motors ect.
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:49 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by EAMotorsports View Post
ROAR didnt jsut decide to pull the 13.5 off the list as well. There are reasons that it was never publicized due to the wording in the lawsuit agreement. There is not much else I can say other than it was done the way it was done due to legal disclosure matters within the lawsuit.

EA
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Originally Posted by frozenpod
Sounds very likey but it doesn't make it right; poor form to accept such an agreement.

Going forward there needs to be a transparent procedure put in place that provides a phase out period that the average racers and retailers are aware of.
Well I guess that does answer the question on why the 13.5 was pulled off the list.
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:58 PM   #96
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Thank you for replying to my question racer1812. I didn't notice all the comments that had to be edited.

Mikexray, you may be right about how this should probably be asked on ROAR's forum, but many racers around the world are not ROAR members, yet we still have to abide by ROAR motor and ESC rules. RCtech is one of our primary sources of RC news and also our main place to discuss these things.
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Old 04-02-2014, 07:35 PM   #97
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i like threads like this...carry on
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:11 PM   #98
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^^lol They are certainly entertaining. Watching grown men cry is always funny.
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Old 04-03-2014, 02:26 AM   #99
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What I think is the real problem here is not so much that racers, including myself, can no longer use our "go to" motor of choice (at ROAR events) (God knows I need every advantage I can get my hands on) rather than the fact that many unknowingly continued to spend money on a doomed product which the governing body apparently had planned to ban all along. Racers continued to purchase the D3.5 with the confidence that it was already deemed legal based on the information available. Obviously information was withheld and the buying public continued to be duped into buying the wrong motor. The consensus was that the D3.5 has an advantage over most motors on the market and was sought out by those who wanted said advantage, real or not. The perception was that only the 17.5 motor was being banned... Again. If a motor does not meet regulations when submitted it should not be permitted and therefore the sale of said motor will suffer. The D3.5 motors had already been deemed legal by the governing body and then rescinded when later found that it does not in fact meet the spec. It had been public knowledge that the 17.5s days were numbered therefore people stopped buying them. The same scenario did not apply to the 13.5. It continued to sell quite well based on the believe that it was within spec. No public information was made available, to the best of my knowledge that would give warning that I was buying an illegal motor. It's as if the lawsuit required that the buying public be swindled purposefully, that's what gets people angry about this situation, not that they can't use the so called "fastest" motor. Obviously there are motors on the market that can compete. (I just need to buy more of them to try since most people used the D3.5 as a benchmark) But that's not the point here.
The fact that I can't use my motor at the RROC doesn't bother me at all, I do have other good motors to use but there is the perception that my D3.5 was the best of them. It actually kicks butt boosted in mod at smaller, bumpy tracks so mine is not for sale yet...
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Old 04-03-2014, 05:50 AM   #100
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i like threads like this...carry on
That's why you are the head cheese....lol
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:22 AM   #101
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Bring back Modified as the "premier" class and never worry about this issue again
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Only Racers can do that...so far they are not.

Whatever the reasons are, racers has decided with their participation.
Valid point and that's why the sponsored/pro drivers at Horsham/Jackson are amazing guys! Their leadership and participation led to two full heats of Mod for their closing trophy event this past week. Yep, 20 drivers in mod. I stopped running blinky last season due to these shenanigans. I'm having a blast in mod and becoming a better driver in the process. The formula is simple, the local fast guys have to step up and become leaders. No egos, no bashing, no taunting just plain ole' leadership.
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:46 AM   #102
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Valid point and that's why the sponsored/pro drivers at Horsham/Jackson are amazing guys! Their leadership and participation led to two full heats of Mod for their closing trophy event this past week. Yep, 20 drivers in mod. I stopped running blinky last season due to these shenanigans. I'm having a blast in mod and becoming a better driver in the process. The formula is simple, the local fast guys have to step up and become leaders. No egos, no bashing, no taunting just plain ole' leadership.
Great to hear some positive news through all of this stuff.
Kudos to those mod guys for stepping up and setting an example to follow.
Thinking back, I'm mostly and oval racer, I decided in protest to dabble with the open mod ranks as well. I encountered much of the same response from the mod guys down here. I was somewhat close and in the general ballpark when I showed up but almost immediately there were guys helping me getting it tweaked. I loved the speed but out of respect for those racers whom I've known for many many years and also recognizing I still needed more wheel time, I opted to not impair their prep for the 'Birds.
Thanks for making that point and keep up the good work mod guys.
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Old 04-03-2014, 04:53 PM   #103
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Can anyone tell me if the D3.5 13.5 is still legal??????

The word is No. No reason stated from ROAR.

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Old 04-03-2014, 08:00 PM   #104
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What I think is the real problem here is not so much that racers, including myself, can no longer use our "go to" motor of choice (at ROAR events) (God knows I need every advantage I can get my hands on) rather than the fact that many unknowingly continued to spend money on a doomed product which the governing body apparently had planned to ban all along. Racers continued to purchase the D3.5 with the confidence that it was already deemed legal based on the information available. Obviously information was withheld and the buying public continued to be duped into buying the wrong motor. The consensus was that the D3.5 has an advantage over most motors on the market and was sought out by those who wanted said advantage, real or not. The perception was that only the 17.5 motor was being banned... Again. If a motor does not meet regulations when submitted it should not be permitted and therefore the sale of said motor will suffer. The D3.5 motors had already been deemed legal by the governing body and then rescinded when later found that it does not in fact meet the spec. It had been public knowledge that the 17.5s days were numbered therefore people stopped buying them. The same scenario did not apply to the 13.5. It continued to sell quite well based on the believe that it was within spec. No public information was made available, to the best of my knowledge that would give warning that I was buying an illegal motor. It's as if the lawsuit required that the buying public be swindled purposefully, that's what gets people angry about this situation, not that they can't use the so called "fastest" motor. Obviously there are motors on the market that can compete. (I just need to buy more of them to try since most people used the D3.5 as a benchmark) But that's not the point here.
The fact that I can't use my motor at the RROC doesn't bother me at all, I do have other good motors to use but there is the perception that my D3.5 was the best of them. It actually kicks butt boosted in mod at smaller, bumpy tracks so mine is not for sale yet...
Great post! In oval the D3.5 was the only motor period. Most people thought it was just the 17.5 going away. Two of biggest classes besides trucks used the 13.5 and as you mentioned still were being purchased.
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Old 04-03-2014, 09:07 PM   #105
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The word is No. No reason stated from ROAR.

Coxy.
What it clearly states is that the wire used in the windings is thicker than the permitted regulation spec.
SO the reason is clearly given.
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