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Old 12-19-2001, 11:08 AM   #301
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Quote:
Originally posted by JOHNNY RACER
DIESEL31-
what are your numbers on the pro's?

rpm 31.587
power 131.34
effiency 69.5
torq 173

rpm 30.334
power 130.22
effiency 68.7
torq 172

my buddy picked up two last night w/ 133 & 134 power and rpm in the 32-33 range. he kicked my ass in the first heat... but i got into the a-main, and he didn't. ha! ha! ha!

anyway, all these motors came from socal raceway. they still had several in the case w/ pretty good numbers.

funny thing though, one of my p2k2's (non-pro) is still faster than both of my pro motors.
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Old 12-19-2001, 11:42 AM   #302
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Quote:
Originally posted by RCCadet
I can't wait till the Core comes out next month!
What is the Core? Who makes it, Orion? Where can I find more info?

Thanks.
Steve
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Old 12-19-2001, 12:45 PM   #303
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Quote:
Originally posted by LooseCannon


What is the Core? Who makes it, Orion? Where can I find more info?

Thanks.
Steve

Yeah the CORE! It was pulled back from its earlier release date. Go to Orion's website and do a search for it. There is a page on thier site describing it. Oscar Jansen has another trick up his sleeve and is releasing the motor soon. The motor reportedly will have the RPM's to run with the GM3 and more torque.
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Old 12-19-2001, 01:54 PM   #304
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i am running 12th scale stock, rather large and open track, flowing, but high speed turns. i am running a p2k2, with integy x pattern brushes (4% i think). i have found them to be fast, however my best lap time of a 13.1 was 2 seconds of what the pros (mike dumas, and eric derosies (sp)) were running.

i noticed that some of the fast guys in tc too, we running their motors on a dremel, i know what this does for break in, however they seemed to be doing it alot.

what small tips could be recommened to start to shave off some of the seconds (i am driving good lines too, since i make it up in the more techincal sections, however i need both low end grunt and high end, since there are some very tight sections, and also a 100ft straight)

any suggestions would be great, thanks!
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Old 12-19-2001, 02:08 PM   #305
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RCCadet: There are some pics a short video of our carpet track at www.marcca.com

The high FDRs seem to work best with the GM3, terrible results with the P2K and I haven't tried them with the P2K2. The GM3 seems to be all about revs and just isn't comofortable running the high six/low seven range like my P2Ks are. At least not on this track.

In fact, the fastest guy at our track, running a TC3 and GM3s, gears his car around 9.0. Isn't that crazy? But damned if it doesn't work. I couldn't go that high with my XXX-S without losing speed but I went close. In fact, I think the greatest benefit I saw was that my GM3 wasn't dropping off as much at the end of a race -- probably due to heat. When I was running my motors ~180 or ~190 coming off the track, the last 30-45 seconds of the race the thing was just a dog. Less heat should let it perform more efficiently for the full 5 minutes, I would think. It's the only way I can explain my results.
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Old 12-19-2001, 02:17 PM   #306
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Futureal: That is a decent track. I watched the movies and it looks like a blast.
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Old 12-19-2001, 04:45 PM   #307
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Yea it is a great facility, we all love it. The movies were shot on a Tuesday night so there weren't many people there (Sat/Sun are the big days, like most tracks) but it does get pretty busy.
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Old 12-19-2001, 05:03 PM   #308
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Stormperson- they are team drivers, what can I say The dremel trick is supposed to break in the brushes without causing arcing on the comm. I think it is a bunch of BS though, because when you do this, the motor acts like a generator anyway, so you still get arcing

Big Jim says he likes the 767 on the P2K2. I have been using the 766, and when they work, they really work, but when they don't, they can do terrible things. So I have several pairs of 767 I plan to try, to see if I can get the torque I got with the 766.


If you are on a more high speed track, you may want to try the GM3, it is more of an RPM motor, the P2K2 is a balance, and the P2K is for tighter tracks...Gearing is also very crucial to stock motors. Have you asked those fast guys what gearing they are running?

If you want more advice, check out the boards at www.hobbytalk.com I don't think it has as much useful information as here, but certainly they do on motors. Big Jim has a thread on motors in the general forum that is extremely useful, and definately can tell you more than here

Hope this helps,
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Old 12-19-2001, 05:29 PM   #309
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Quote:
Originally posted by futureal
RCCadet: There are some pics a short video of our carpet track at www.marcca.com

Cool stuff!
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Old 12-19-2001, 11:07 PM   #310
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I actually have footage from the last few trophy races we've had, plus some stuff from the US Indoor Champs, just haven't had the time to digitize it. R/C videos are always cool to watch.

Speedo, one time you told me you were gearing the GM3 just like me, 8+. How's that been working in your area?

To revisit the FDR debate again, a lot of guys around here will gear the GM3 in the 6.7-7.2 range, then another group of us in the 8.2-9.0 range. The latter seems to be faster but the other guys swear that lower is better. The problem is they go down one tooth at a time, and immediately the car feels slow, say from a 7.2 to a 7.5 and they say "nope, wrong direction."

I'm no motor guru but a 200+ degree stock motor on carpet after 5 minutes just seems crazy. (Outdoors? P2K it and gear it to the moon -- but who races stock outdoors anyway? haha)

Oh yea, another thing I've noticed. If the magnets are wearing on one of my motors, often times I can get performance back by going down a tooth on the pinnion (especially with 64P). The theory should be that with weaker magnets, the motor lacks some of its original torque, so you want less strain. Am I right, or just lucky? heh

(My best test of the above theory was when I was running silver-can Mabuchis in a F1 class. One day I decided to go way down from where everybody else was, like a 75/17 instead of a 75/22, and my car was a rocket. Reasoning? The Mabuchi's about as magnetic as my personality. )
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Old 12-20-2001, 06:38 AM   #311
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I've got to say i'm in the high-geared, rather than the low geared camp myself.

I've had my p2k at about 7.5 to 1 (kit pro3 setting), and just felt it was revving out all the time, even between the corners (this is in tracks with 15-odd second laptimes).

Although the car was quite pacy round the infield, i like to have enough pace down the straight to not have the car I've just passed come back up the inside.

I've found with my p2k that i can gear surprisingly high, without losing punch - I've gone up to about 6 to 1 before feeling like the car was losing it out of the corners. normally now I'm running about 6.5 to 7

A guy at my old club actually had is GM3 on a final ratio of about 5.7, and he was untouchable (because no-one else had realised you could go that high, although it was a high speed layout) (BTW, i think he was running his x-ray without ballast, making it quite underweight)

So are you suggesting that going way out to 8.5-odd final drive, will give me MORE pace, because I'm not straining the motor, and it's revving freer?
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Old 12-24-2001, 10:28 AM   #312
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What gearing do you recommend for the P2K2 in a TC3? We use 48p gears, 72t spur. We have been running high gearing with our P2K, 28t pinion.
Thanks.
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Old 12-24-2001, 01:30 PM   #313
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try going down a tooth or two....
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Old 12-24-2001, 03:52 PM   #314
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Shane-I'm at an 8.12 FDR with my GM3 now, though I hardly run it anymore. I'm sticking with P2K2's and P2K's. i have my P2K2 at a 7.54 to 7.2, and my P2K at a 7.0 FDR. I have tried going lower, and I truly think it is faster. For off-road, that is another story. I am running about 4 teeth lower than everybody else in off-road.

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Old 12-24-2001, 06:14 PM   #315
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I'm now running my MVP on 6.6 due to the ambient track temperature getting much hotter as we get to summer. If we had 5 minute racing instead of 4, I'd be lower still.
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