STOCK motor forum
10-04-2007, 05:16 PM
#2806
Thanks again Wallstreet.
Another question, Are you better off using a larger spur and smaller pinion or a smaller spur and larger pinion. I know the numbers would work out the same but I know there has to be some type of performance differences between the 2 ways.
Would you get quicker acceleration using a smaller pinion with a larger spur?
Another question, Are you better off using a larger spur and smaller pinion or a smaller spur and larger pinion. I know the numbers would work out the same but I know there has to be some type of performance differences between the 2 ways.
Would you get quicker acceleration using a smaller pinion with a larger spur?
BTW, the numbers only work out the same if the spur/pinion both get larger and the roll-out is the same, the converse is true, the numbers only work out if both the spur and pinion get smaller and the roll-out is the same. Larger spur and pinion should have slower acceleration and only slightly slower top speed for the same roll-out. The slower acceleration is due to the increased rotating mass of the larger spur and pinion, and the slightly slower top speed will be due to the increased weight of the whole assembly bogging down the motor.
sorry, had to get technical...
10-05-2007, 01:45 AM
#2807
A good example of the lighter and smaller spur gear spooling up quicker than a larger spur gear is like a flywheel on a full size car.
If it is made lighter it therefore has less rotational mass and will allow the engine to spool up/rev with less weight drag.
However, the differences on an r/c car for an optimal spur gear spool up would be very minimal I would imagine. It would be hard to replicate with two cars side by side as everything would need to be 110% identical to get a fair comparison.
Putting it into perspective, for club racing it will be far less critical to look at something like this and you would get more performance gains through motor tuning, better matched cells or overall correct gearing if it is out.
If it is made lighter it therefore has less rotational mass and will allow the engine to spool up/rev with less weight drag.
However, the differences on an r/c car for an optimal spur gear spool up would be very minimal I would imagine. It would be hard to replicate with two cars side by side as everything would need to be 110% identical to get a fair comparison.
Putting it into perspective, for club racing it will be far less critical to look at something like this and you would get more performance gains through motor tuning, better matched cells or overall correct gearing if it is out.
10-05-2007, 06:23 AM
#2808
I am not looking at it as a weight advantage but more of what the difference of effect would be with the motor starting a smaller pinion with a larger spur vs the motor starting a larger pinion with a smaller spur. Obviously the motor would be spinning more to get the spur going if the pinion was smaller.
I guess I am asking which combo would be better for technical tracks and what combo would be better for open flowing tracks.
I guess I am asking which combo would be better for technical tracks and what combo would be better for open flowing tracks.
10-05-2007, 05:02 PM
#2810
on the larger spur is bad thing... if its bad then how come all the pors use the largest spur they can fit in there car. I.E. Hara and a 108 spur in the cyclone(its the largest that will fit) if its bad then it wouldnt make sense for the pros to be doing that. last i checked all pros run the largest spur they can fit.
yes the weight idea is true but then if you run a smaller spur u have to run a biger pinion which mean more weight on the motor itself... so either way your having to put extra weight some where.
yes the weight idea is true but then if you run a smaller spur u have to run a biger pinion which mean more weight on the motor itself... so either way your having to put extra weight some where.
10-05-2007, 05:59 PM
#2811
on the larger spur is bad thing... if its bad then how come all the pors use the largest spur they can fit in there car. I.E. Hara and a 108 spur in the cyclone(its the largest that will fit) if its bad then it wouldnt make sense for the pros to be doing that. last i checked all pros run the largest spur they can fit.
yes the weight idea is true but then if you run a smaller spur u have to run a biger pinion which mean more weight on the motor itself... so either way your having to put extra weight some where.
yes the weight idea is true but then if you run a smaller spur u have to run a biger pinion which mean more weight on the motor itself... so either way your having to put extra weight some where.
As far as Hara using a 108t in the cyclone is due to the fact that probably the motor mount only allows to move so much and with the spur that comes with the car would be alittle out of reach for the pinion in some instances. The bigger pinion allows them to have the pinion touch the spur with in the confinds of the motor mount. I have a cyclone s and I could not get my biggest pinion which was a 34 to touch the 100t spur that came with it. Then I went and got me a 110t spur and now I have no problem getting the proper gear mesh.
10-06-2007, 05:03 PM
#2812
Tech Master
iTrader: (22)
Tuning
Hi all,
i need some help requiring tuning a stock motor. i have just gotten a team orion advantage charger, am i right that this charger will tell me the amp draw from the motor? at what volts should i test the motor. what am i actually looking for? and then how can i improve on the results (or does it not work like this?)
changing springs, brushes, etc will improve motors performance, what do you guys recommend to gain more rpm?
thanks in advance
i need some help requiring tuning a stock motor. i have just gotten a team orion advantage charger, am i right that this charger will tell me the amp draw from the motor? at what volts should i test the motor. what am i actually looking for? and then how can i improve on the results (or does it not work like this?)
changing springs, brushes, etc will improve motors performance, what do you guys recommend to gain more rpm?
thanks in advance
Terry
10-06-2007, 05:58 PM
#2813
my 23t yokomo T Max MST..only got 27.000 Rpm @ 7.2 V after broken in it ....using Much More Motor Master...is it normal???? can i make it up to 30.000 rpm???
10-06-2007, 06:26 PM
#2814
I started the break-in at the 2V, the amp draw showed around 6.5 to start and climbed to 9, it settled in at 8.2 at the end of the 5 minutes. Springs are silver/silver from orion and the stock high silver brush.
If what I have read previously holds true, it should be a strong running motor based on the amp draw, but some have said the numbers may look good, but only track time will tell.
10-06-2007, 06:41 PM
#2815
I have a duratrack ice charger which has a motor break in feature on it. Somewhere earlier in this thread I read that you should break the motor in at 2V for 5 minutes. I did this on an Orion Core after cutting the comm lightly, cutting the brushes, centering and shimming the armature to the center of the magnetic field and aligning the brush hoods. I also used Team Hurricane Blue Thunder for the break-in.
I started the break-in at the 2V, the amp draw showed around 6.5 to start and climbed to 9, it settled in at 8.2 at the end of the 5 minutes. Springs are silver/silver from orion and the stock high silver brush.
If what I have read previously holds true, it should be a strong running motor based on the amp draw, but some have said the numbers may look good, but only track time will tell.
I started the break-in at the 2V, the amp draw showed around 6.5 to start and climbed to 9, it settled in at 8.2 at the end of the 5 minutes. Springs are silver/silver from orion and the stock high silver brush.
If what I have read previously holds true, it should be a strong running motor based on the amp draw, but some have said the numbers may look good, but only track time will tell.
10-06-2007, 08:07 PM
#2816
The Orion core is a stock motor (27t)
To get more power/tuning your stock (23t or 27t) and 19t motors.
1. Make sure your bushings are properly seated by placing a wooden dowel over the bushing and giving the dowel a couple solid taps.
note: you don't have to knock it through the table.
2.Center the arm in the magnetic field.
When possible use a teflon shim for the one that
will contact the bushings.
3. Cut your comm just enough to get it perfectly round.
4.Align your brush hoods.
The proper method to this is....
Square off the face of a pair of brushes.
Install the brushes and assemble the motor.
Run the motor at 2-3 volts for 30-40 seconds, just long enough to see where the comm is running on the brush.
If the wear mark is dead center of the brush, they are properly aligned.
If the wear mark is off center, use a 4.5mm post wrench loosen the post and phillips screw that hold the brush hood just enough to move the hood a little.
Using an alignment bar pull/push the hood in the opposite direction that the mark was of center on the brush.
Repeat until the wear mark is dead center on the brush.
5. For motors with bushings you can polish the bushings if you like.
How I do it is by using an old arm. I will put some "old style" whitening paste type tooth paste on the armature shaft and a little in the center of the bushing.
I will then assemble the motor, no brushes need.
Next spin the motor up with a dremel or another motor contecting the two with fuel tubing.
Spin the motor for a couple minutes then tear it down and clean it 100% to get the toothpaste out. I use a pipe cleaner to clean the hole in the bushing.
6. Reassemble the motor with the new arm and install new brushes and springs.Oil the bushings with a good quality oil.
7. Run the motor in at 2-3 volts for 3-5 minutes depending on the type of brushes.Once the brushes look to be fully seated reinstall them and run the motor another 20-30 seconds.
Spray the motor down real good with motor spray(leaving the brushes installed) and re oil the bushings.
You are now all set.
Amp draw will vary depending on magnet strength, type of brushes ,springs used and how much drag there is between the shaft and bushings.
Amp draw does not determine the performance of a motor.
I hope this helps
Later
Dayton
To get more power/tuning your stock (23t or 27t) and 19t motors.
1. Make sure your bushings are properly seated by placing a wooden dowel over the bushing and giving the dowel a couple solid taps.
note: you don't have to knock it through the table.
2.Center the arm in the magnetic field.
When possible use a teflon shim for the one that
will contact the bushings.
3. Cut your comm just enough to get it perfectly round.
4.Align your brush hoods.
The proper method to this is....
Square off the face of a pair of brushes.
Install the brushes and assemble the motor.
Run the motor at 2-3 volts for 30-40 seconds, just long enough to see where the comm is running on the brush.
If the wear mark is dead center of the brush, they are properly aligned.
If the wear mark is off center, use a 4.5mm post wrench loosen the post and phillips screw that hold the brush hood just enough to move the hood a little.
Using an alignment bar pull/push the hood in the opposite direction that the mark was of center on the brush.
Repeat until the wear mark is dead center on the brush.
5. For motors with bushings you can polish the bushings if you like.
How I do it is by using an old arm. I will put some "old style" whitening paste type tooth paste on the armature shaft and a little in the center of the bushing.
I will then assemble the motor, no brushes need.
Next spin the motor up with a dremel or another motor contecting the two with fuel tubing.
Spin the motor for a couple minutes then tear it down and clean it 100% to get the toothpaste out. I use a pipe cleaner to clean the hole in the bushing.
6. Reassemble the motor with the new arm and install new brushes and springs.Oil the bushings with a good quality oil.
7. Run the motor in at 2-3 volts for 3-5 minutes depending on the type of brushes.Once the brushes look to be fully seated reinstall them and run the motor another 20-30 seconds.
Spray the motor down real good with motor spray(leaving the brushes installed) and re oil the bushings.
You are now all set.
Amp draw will vary depending on magnet strength, type of brushes ,springs used and how much drag there is between the shaft and bushings.
Amp draw does not determine the performance of a motor.
I hope this helps
Later
Dayton
10-06-2007, 09:08 PM
#2817
12-11-2007, 01:20 PM
#2818
Tech Regular
iTrader: (3)
gearing delemma
I have a question about gearing motors off of a dyno print out.
If I have 3 motors and the gearing is correct for the first one 20 teeth. Running 12 scale foam on a tighter track.
Motor 1 dynos as such at 5V
RPM TORQ WATT AMP
18830 2.2 31 14.9
17187 3.5 44 17.8
15880 4.6 54 20
14958 5.4 60 21.9
13556 6.4 64 24.9
12145 7.4 67 27.8
Motor 2 dynos as such at 5V
RPM TORQ WATT AMP
20236 2.7 40 14.9
17989 3.9 53 17.8
16894 4.8 60 20
15207 5.8 65 21.9
13961 6.9 71 24.9
12593 7.7 71 27.8
Motor 3 dynos as such at 5V
RPM TORQ WATT AMP
20784 2.5 39 14.9
18842 3.8 53 17.8
17784 4.5 60 20
16725 5.3 66 21.9
15359 6.3 72 24.9
14018 7.3 72 27.8
If I adjust for 15 amp rpm motors 2+3 are quite even but at 25 amps motor 3 is 10% faster than motor 2. Motor 3 is also 8% faster at 20 amps which should be the straight away draw of the motor. If you had this issue how would you solve it. gear for top rpm, gear for corner power or gear for straightaway power? Which is the best 12 scale motor?
If I have 3 motors and the gearing is correct for the first one 20 teeth. Running 12 scale foam on a tighter track.
Motor 1 dynos as such at 5V
RPM TORQ WATT AMP
18830 2.2 31 14.9
17187 3.5 44 17.8
15880 4.6 54 20
14958 5.4 60 21.9
13556 6.4 64 24.9
12145 7.4 67 27.8
Motor 2 dynos as such at 5V
RPM TORQ WATT AMP
20236 2.7 40 14.9
17989 3.9 53 17.8
16894 4.8 60 20
15207 5.8 65 21.9
13961 6.9 71 24.9
12593 7.7 71 27.8
Motor 3 dynos as such at 5V
RPM TORQ WATT AMP
20784 2.5 39 14.9
18842 3.8 53 17.8
17784 4.5 60 20
16725 5.3 66 21.9
15359 6.3 72 24.9
14018 7.3 72 27.8
If I adjust for 15 amp rpm motors 2+3 are quite even but at 25 amps motor 3 is 10% faster than motor 2. Motor 3 is also 8% faster at 20 amps which should be the straight away draw of the motor. If you had this issue how would you solve it. gear for top rpm, gear for corner power or gear for straightaway power? Which is the best 12 scale motor?
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